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Author Topic: I Come With Questions (Repost)  (Read 1828 times)

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Offline A Wanderer

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I Come With Questions (Repost)
« on: July 23, 2013, 05:23:02 AM »
Due to the server losing data, I had lost my topic. And any replies it may have gotten I didn't get the chance to read. So here it is again.


Quote
But it would be rude of me to start asking random questions without first introducing myself.As you can see to the left with my name. I'm rather nomadic in terms of boards and communities. Yes, I am a furry. I'm really not into fursuits or dressing up at all but the passion that makes one a furry is still very much there and I am here to bring up some questions about it.I'll be honest with you all. I'm kind of uncomfortable having such interests and desires. I'd be a massive fool to deny it though. Maybe I'm making way too big a deal about it. But hey, don't mind me.

What I am mainly wondering though is this: It seems everyone has both a civilized and animalistic side to them. It's stronger in some and weaker in others but it's still there. So, my quandry is whether everyone is a furry to one degree or another or not. My theory is that they are.Now, I could be totally and completely wrong but that's why I'm here. For you to tell me if I'm wrong or not. Do you know anyone who really isn't a furry at all? Do you know they aren't for sure?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 05:25:05 AM by A Wanderer »
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Re: I Come With Questions (Repost)
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2013, 03:56:56 PM »
It's true that humans have an animalistic side because - despite being civilized - we pretty much are still animals. We aren't that far separated from other intelligent creatures.

I don't think that makes everyone a "furry", however. It kind of depends on how you're defining what makes you a "furry." Furries are generally defined by being fans of anthropomorphic art and characters, not necessarily by being animalistic characters themselves. Although there are many furries who believe they have animal spirits or that they were animals in a past life and things like that, not all furries have those beliefs, and that's not what makes you a furry in general.

Furry-ness is a fandom, and if you're not a fan, you're not a furry. There are plenty of people who don't see the appeal in anthropomorphic or "talking" animals and would much prefer to see human characters in the media they browse.
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Offline A Wanderer

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Re: I Come With Questions (Repost)
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2013, 05:33:59 PM »
It's true that humans have an animalistic side because - despite being civilized - we pretty much are still animals. We aren't that far separated from other intelligent creatures.

I don't think that makes everyone a "furry", however. It kind of depends on how you're defining what makes you a "furry." Furries are generally defined by being fans of anthropomorphic art and characters, not necessarily by being animalistic characters themselves. Although there are many furries who believe they have animal spirits or that they were animals in a past life and things like that, not all furries have those beliefs, and that's not what makes you a furry in general.

Furry-ness is a fandom, and if you're not a fan, you're not a furry. There are plenty of people who don't see the appeal in anthropomorphic or "talking" animals and would much prefer to see human characters in the media they browse.
Very interesting. Let me introduce another argument.


If one looks throughout history to the pagan religions, one can see that a good part of them worship animals or anthros such as the Egyptians. If one also looks at some tribal communities such as the Mayans and the Aztecs and the Indians, they also worship gods who are animal in nature. And even further, I think that some tribes in Africa had believed that drinking the blood or eating a certain part of an animal would give that person its powers. Not to mention that they took this belief to lofty heights and used natural drugs in gatherings throughout history to induce a frenzy that can only be characterized as animalistic.


Also, another argument. Some say furries have their appeal through a double combo of a certain cuteness factor (cats for example) combined with ideal physical characteristics of humans. If this is true then shouldn't furries appeal to everyone at least somewhat?
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Offline Friday

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Re: I Come With Questions (Repost)
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2013, 06:47:12 PM »
You're misinterpreting WZ's argument. You two have different views of what makes a person a furry, and WZ's is the commonly accepted definition.

You're stating that being furry has some relation to a primal desire to be more like an animal.

WZ is stating that being a furry is about identifying with and participating in the furry fandom.

Your statement, and it's extension (that everyone is a furry because everyone has this primal desire) follows logically, and the premise isn't unsound. But it is using definitions that most people wouldn't, so I would rephrase.

Your second point is incorrect though. Not everyone is an animal lover. You're making broad generalizations, and there's always an exception to the rule.

If you were to change the statement to a slightly more agreeable, "Furries should appeal to almost everyone at least somewhat," that is still incorrect. Some people find the hybridization disgusting and unnatural; I feel this is actually a rather common view. More to the point, if someone appreciates a furry for its human features much more than its animal ones, is it really fair to call them furry if they would prefer the furry look completely human? That would, potentially, encompass a large portion of people who may look at a furry without being disgusted by the hybridization.

Regardless, this whole discussion is irrelevant without data. We've moved on to a psychological debate from the philosophical one you presented. Philosophy doesn't need data, psychology does. Your philosophical question (is everyone a furry) in unanswerable in its current form due to language issues; your definition of furry is incorrect, and therefore your question is flawed. Your psychological question (does everyone have to like furry) is unanswerable due to lack of data and problematic question structure.

I'm also curious as to why YOU are curious about this.

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Offline A Wanderer

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Re: I Come With Questions (Repost)
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2013, 07:24:28 PM »
You're misinterpreting WZ's argument. You two have different views of what makes a person a furry, and WZ's is the commonly accepted definition.

You're stating that being furry has some relation to a primal desire to be more like an animal.

WZ is stating that being a furry is about identifying with and participating in the furry fandom.

Your statement, and it's extension (that everyone is a furry because everyone has this primal desire) follows logically, and the premise isn't unsound. But it is using definitions that most people wouldn't, so I would rephrase.

Your second point is incorrect though. Not everyone is an animal lover. You're making broad generalizations, and there's always an exception to the rule.

If you were to change the statement to a slightly more agreeable, "Furries should appeal to almost everyone at least somewhat," that is still incorrect. Some people find the hybridization disgusting and unnatural; I feel this is actually a rather common view. More to the point, if someone appreciates a furry for its human features much more than its animal ones, is it really fair to call them furry if they would prefer the furry look completely human? That would, potentially, encompass a large portion of people who may look at a furry without being disgusted by the hybridization.

Regardless, this whole discussion is irrelevant without data. We've moved on to a psychological debate from the philosophical one you presented. Philosophy doesn't need data, psychology does. Your philosophical question (is everyone a furry) in unanswerable in its current form due to language issues; your definition of furry is incorrect, and therefore your question is flawed. Your psychological question (does everyone have to like furry) is unanswerable due to lack of data and problematic question structure.

I'm also curious as to why YOU are curious about this.
Very nice response, I must say.


I guess I have been confusing definitions and I don't have any hard evidence to back myself up, unfortunately. Just speculation.


Hm, this is more complicated than I originally thought and I knew it wasn't an easy subject to tackle. In the end, it is pointless to continue this further without evidence of any kind. In any case, thank you all for letting me bounce some ideas off of you.


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As to why I, personally, want to know, well. It would explain a couple things to me whether it were true or false. I'm mainly trying to understand why I am such. It's a strange thing to my mind but to me, personally, it feels natural. I don't know...


I tend to ask questions people don't usually ask in order to better understand something at least basically. This applies especially when it's something personal about me. Right now, I can explain everything I do and think to a degree. But coming into full realization that I'm a furry and yet I can't explain it like everything else I know about myself... It bothers me.


TL;DR: If I am different from a lot of people, I want to know why.

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Offline Friday

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Re: I Come With Questions (Repost)
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2013, 11:32:48 PM »
Ok, cool. As for being different from a lot of people, don't sweat it so much. Chances are, just about every detail of your appearance and personality makes you different from a lot of people :P
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Offline A Wanderer

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Re: I Come With Questions (Repost)
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2013, 07:49:05 AM »
Ok, cool. As for being different from a lot of people, don't sweat it so much. Chances are, just about every detail of your appearance and personality makes you different from a lot of people :P
True but those details are different. They're ordinary differences that are expected to be different. But it's not the fact of 'being different from everyone else' that bothers me. It's the lack of an answer to a question about myself. It's not that big of a deal but it still resides in the back of my mind.
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Re: I Come With Questions (Repost)
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2013, 01:21:01 PM »
Lets break it down to some different views on the idea

  Freud believed in the concept that people had a human and animalistic side. We had three levels of cognition, the id, the ego and the super ego. The id represents the animalistic side of humans, essentially "kill kill kill mate mate mate eat eat eat". The Super ego represents the civil side and moral side of humanity, being polite, being nice and so forth. The ego represents the compromiser between the two, which decides to take some parts of the id and some parts of the super ego in order to establish what are actions and thoughts are. It's an interesting idea, and goes with a lot what you are saying, if people have that animalistic side does that make them animals? Although Freud's idea is shown to not support experimental analysis, it could be a way of developing your ideas with a more anamlistic idea.

  The other idea is of course through evolution, the idea that primitive minds do exist in everyone because a human mind is a more advanced layer of a primates mind, which in itself is a more advanced layer of a reptile mind and so on. Our brains evolved from the inside out, the most simple processes are shared by even the most simple organisms, the more complex the processes of our brain are, however, the less species we have in common. It branches out but shows that at every human, the most basic processes are still animals. Essentially this is saying humans ARE animals

  That goes on the animalistic debate but lets talk about the specific problems. There are a few things about difference that is important. One thing a lot of people like to think that they are different, in an abnormal way, that they are special. I believe the main reason for this is that people have high hopes, they see the people around them and see there unremarkable lives, they don't want an unremarkable life they want a remarkable life so they say they are different, they are not the same and won't live the same life. A lot of people do this, maybe not everyone, and maybe not most people I'm not sure, I can say for certain I do this though. But the question is if a lot of people do it, how different are they really? Perhaps we just WANT to feel different, and because of that we do feel different. Perhaps, we aren't different, and we truly are very similar, and our thoughts we perceive as different a lot of people have and are in truth, the same.

  You say you ask questions that aren't normally asked, that's a good quality! Asking lots of questions is very important, it's what makes a good scientist or intellectual is someone who asks a lot of questions, about anything. So that's good!  It sounds like you are curious, but more so you are progressing to a stage of self exploration which, believe it or not, a lot of people go through. Take a high school english class and the idea of self-exploration will probably be mentioned at least once (It's in a lot of popular culture). We are all different, yet we are all similar, different in some ways, similar in others, we share similar environments and similar genetic code, but each of those are different in subtle ways, which allows us to be different, yet similar.

  It's late and I don't really know what I'm trying to explain because I'm not sure what you are wanting to be explained. But your last questions is a lack of answer about yourself, obviously we can't give you an answer. I mean, I believe a human is shaped by their genetics and environment, so to truly explain who you are in full detail you'd have to map your entire genetic structure and keep a record of every event that even slightly influenced you. So an answer in that regard is almost impossible, all we can do is make generalizations, but that's with the universe, science itself is simply a close approximation, no one can really know the absolute truth. So perhaps take this in mind, if you had the answer of why you were and you knew yourself in completely, then what mystery would there be? You would already know everything about yourself so there's nothing less to discover. Do you ask questions cause you want to know the answers, or because you want to discover the answers? Would you be happier in a universe that has unanswered questions or a universe that has everything perfectly answered? Mystery is a thrill, and by not knowing everything about yourself youy leave more of yourself to be explored. You constantly find out new things about yourself every day, whether it be something you enjoy that you didn't think about, or perhaps a limitation you didn't know. It's a continuing adventure and I personally wouldn't have it any other way.
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Offline A Wanderer

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Re: I Come With Questions (Repost)
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2013, 05:58:55 PM »
Lets break it down to some different views on the idea

snip
Again, a very nice response.


As to what question I'm really asking, I'm asking why I'm a furry. While self-exploration never really ends as you said, it's important to know what you've got to work with inside you. It has been said that there are links between Autism and being a furry. I'm inclined to believe this since I've been legitly diagnosed with Asperger's (When I was applying to Voc Rehab, they were testing for whether I had ADHD. They found that and Asperger's.), although that's just me. It's just one case.


But my real point is that I can explain a whole lot about myself. I like being alone because I've been alone a lot. I have trouble concentrating sometimes because I have ADHD. I'm good at imagining things because I always imagine things all the time, and etc. But being a furry is a matter of preference. Like how one prefers pepperoni pizza to cheese which makes this much harder to find a reason for. I guess it really is probably just genetics but it's strange that genetics would give me that kind of preference.


As I said though. In the end, it doesn't matter at all. I am a furry. No two ways about it. And that's all I can say for sure. Thank you all for answering my questions. It really helps.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 06:00:49 PM by A Wanderer »
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