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Author Topic: American Apparel and their Search for Plus-Sized Models  (Read 2243 times)

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Offline Puncia

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American Apparel and their Search for Plus-Sized Models
« on: September 14, 2011, 10:56:28 PM »

This is Nancy Upton.
When Nancy found out that the clothing manufacturer American Apparel was searching for new models to promote their "plus sizes" clothes, (more about that further down), she like many others found it offensive. She wrote herself:

Quote from: Nancy Upton
I read Margaret's article about the contest on your website and followed the link over. I immediately thought, based on the way it was written, "Wow, they really have zero respect for plus-sized women. They're going to line them up like cattle and make puns about them until they're blue in the face." And then, as corny as it sounds, it just occurred to me that based on their "Hey, come on, fatties, we want you to play, too" tone, wouldn't it be kind of brilliant to respond in a, "Thanks for letting me play, just let me try put down the pizza, first" similar mocking tone. From there, I realized I knew a great photographer, I had a free couple of hours on Sunday and a little extra money in my pocket to drop on some ranch dressing and a chicken.
Instead of a traditional modelling pictures, the daring Nancy Upton submitted “fat girl” pictures of herself bathing in ranch dressing, squirting chocolate syrup down the gullet, and posed with an apple in her mouth like a pig on a spit. Amongst the photos, this is the least suggestive one. You're all welcome to find the rest yourselves.

 


Needless to say her pictures received a lot of attention and tons of votes. So much that she actually won the contest. Now plus sized people and fans might see this as a victory, but wait till you read the mail Nancy got from AA themselves. This is what they have to say regarding her winning their competition:

Quote from: Iris Alonzo; Creative Director at American Apparel
[...]
Oh - and regarding winning the contest, while you were clearly the popular choice, we have decided to award the prizes to other contestants that we feel truly exemplify the idea of beauty inside and out, and whom we will be proud to have representing our company.
The full letter:
Spoiler for Hidden:
    Dear Nancy Upton,

     

    My name is Iris Alonzo and I am a Creative Director at American Apparel. Along with four other women, I conceived of the Next BIG Thing campaign for American Apparel. Firstly, we are very sorry that we offended you. Our only motive was to discover and celebrate the many beautiful XL women around the globe who enjoy our brand, and to promote the recent size additions to our collection. Nothing more, nothing less. We would also like to assure you that no one is getting fired over your stunt, as you expressed concern about in a recent interview. We are fortunate to have a great boss who trusts and believes in our instincts and ideas, and we are still very excited about all of our Next BIG Things and looking forward to meeting our new XL brand ambassadors.

     

    It’s a shame that your project attempts to discredit the positive intentions of our challenge based on your personal distaste for our use of light-hearted language, and that “bootylicous” was too much for you to handle. While we may be a bit TOO inspired by Beyoncé, and do have a tendency to occasionally go pun-crazy, we try not to take ourselves too seriously around here. I wonder if you had taken just a moment to imagine that this campaign could actually be well intentioned, and that my team and I are not out to offend and insult women, would you have still behaved in the same way, mocking the confident and excited participants who put themselves out there? Maybe you’ll find it interesting that in addition to simply responding to customer demand and feedback, when you’re a vertically-integrated company, actual jobs are created from new size additions. In this case, for the XL women who will model them, industrial workers that make them, retail employees that sell them and beyond. That’s the amazing reality of American Apparel’s business.

     

    Though I could spend hours responding to your accusations and assumptions, this isn’t the appropriate forum for that, so I will only briefly address a few issues here. In regards to April Flores’ “that’s not our demographic” experience, I don’t recall the name of the confused employee credited with saying that, but he or she was sadly uninformed, and our company certainly does not endorse their statement. For as long as I can remember, we have offered sizes up to 3XL in our basic styles, and as far as adding larger sizes to the rest of our line is concerned, if there is the demand and manufacturing power to support it, we’re always game. There are thousands of brands in the market who have no intention of supporting natural - and completely normal - full-figured women, and American Apparel is making a conscious effort to change that, both with our models and our line. If every brand that tried to do this was met with such negative press, we may have to wait another decade for the mainstream to embrace something so simple.

     

    In the past, American Apparel has been targeted for various reasons, many times by journalists who weren’t willing to go the extra mile to even visit the factory or meet the people in charge. Dov is a great executive director and American Industrialist, but there are hundreds of other decision-makers in our company, over half of whom are women. I suppose you have read a few too many negative pieces about us that have helped to form your opinion of who we are and what we stand for, and perhaps this has clouded your ability to give us a chance. I get it. I read some of it too. As a creative who isn’t always the most tactful and tends to stay away from the limelight, maybe I haven’t spoken up as much as I should have over the past 8 years that I’ve worked at American Apparel. Perhaps I could have shed some light on some issues that have been left cloudy over the years. However, sensational media will always need something to latch on to and success, spandex and individuality (and mutton chops circa 2004) are certainly easy targets. And who knows - maybe the PR ups and downs are all part of our DNA as a company. What I do know is that after all the years I have been working for this company I can wholeheartedly say that American Apparel is an amazing and inspiring place to work. I can’t speak for everyone, but I can represent of a ton of people I know when I say that we really like Dov and we passionately believe in his vision for a beautiful factory with sustainable practices. We are the largest sewing factory in North America, after all…10,000 jobs is nothing to sniff at. A lot of people would be very sad if this company wasn’t around.

     

    That said, we realize that we are in no way perfect and that we’re still learning. We want to do better or differently in many areas, and we are actively working on them every day. You’re literally witnessing a transparent, sincere, innovative, creative company go through puberty in the spotlight of modern media. It’s not easy!

     

    Oh — and regarding winning the contest, while you were clearly the popular choice, we have decided to award the prizes to other contestants that we feel truly exemplify the idea of beauty inside and out, and whom we will be proud to have representing our company.

     

    Please feel free to contact me directly anytime. If you want to know the real scoop about our company before writing a story, I’ve got it (or if I don’t, I can put you in touch with the person that does!).

     

    Best of luck,

     

    Iris Alonzo
    Creative Director
    American Apparel
    [email protected]
They did not like her attitude towards them. The absurd part? Nancy doesn't look like an "extra large" person. She looks, quite frankly, normal. Average. The fact that American Apparel has been in business since 1989 and only just now started carrying Nancy's size is what seems abnormal.



So what does the good people of this forum think about this? Is it fair that she didn't win despite getting most votes, just because she shows a little pride and humor?
I know there are many in the furdom that like chubby furs, both men and women, so I imagine many of you will have something to say about this.
What about American Apparel? I didn't even know of this company before seeing Nancy on I-Am-Bored.com of all places. From what I've seen, they advertise that they have plus sizes for all standard clothes they sell. In reality they don't even carry a size 12 and forget about 14. Even high fashion stores do this from what I read in comments below articles on this subject.

Your thoughts people?



Info, pictures and some text from:
Jezebel.com
TheFrisky.com
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 10:58:39 PM by Faricho »

Offline WingedZephyr

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Re: American Apparel and their Search for Plus-Sized Models
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2011, 11:44:24 PM »
I have a lot of mixed feelings about this.

As an artist, I can see the point Nancy was trying to make, and I feel she earned the support she received from her fans. It was an effective and tasteful artistic statement, and I feel I could applaud her creativity.

On the other hand, American Apparel wasn't asking for an artistic statement by opening up the job offer for models. They wanted someone who was serious about the position and willing to work with them. I actually think they can easily justify their decision to choose who represents their company. When you go to a job interview, most often it doesn't matter how creative or talented or whatever else is amazing, they'll still turn you down if you show that you have a major attitude problem when it comes to working with people at the company. Can you really blame them for turning down someone who basically turned their entire campaign into an embarrassing joke?

Of course, that doesn't mean that American Apparel is entirely in the right either. They were quite overenthusiastic about their euphemisms and puns and definitely could have toned it down, but as irritating as it may be... that's advertising for you. Does it have a negative effect on people sometimes? Sure, probably. Is American Apparel the only company ever guilty of doing the exact same thing? Heck no. It doesn't make it right, but it doesn't mean everyone should start storming the AA headquarters with torches and pitchforks just because they're the ones mentioned in the article.

So saying "Do you support Nancy Upton or American Apparel?" really just boils down to political correctness which, in my opinion, is one of the silliest things to waste effort arguing over. AA was trying to make the campaign sound fun and euphemisms were used to not outright say "HEY FAT PEOPLE COME HERE SO WE CAN FIT YOU INTO OUR FAT CLOTHES, M'KAY?"



The only thing I see as a real problem in the whole thing is the fact that clothing stores, not just American Apparel, are always forgetting about "normal" sized women. But the whole modeling competition ordeal isn't even relevant in that conversation, just clothing stores as a whole who provide clothing products. Maybe there should be more articles drawing attention to that fact instead of focusing on pointing fingers and rooting for some controversial images in a contest.
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Re: American Apparel and their Search for Plus-Sized Models
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2011, 02:11:44 AM »
First off, I'm going to say that I don't wear anything from American Apparel, and I think I've only been in their store once to get my cousin a gift card for his birthday.

Reading Zephyr's response to this, I don't think Nancy was going at this in any kind of an artistic way. Instead she was attacking AA's use of puns, and offensive language in their advertisement. As a woman in business myself, and as a marketing supervisor, the thing that I was most upset about was AA's response to Nancy. Not the original article, not that XL = "plus size" and that AA's XL=12/14US, but how their "Creative Director" responded to her winning the contest, and them picking other models. The verbiage, and general tl;dr-ness of her entire email was just absurd. Okay, picking other models is good for their business, because like Zephyr said, even if you're the best canidate for a job, if you have a crummy attitude then you're not going to get the job. Personally, I don't think that Nancy actually even wanted to be an AA model. She just wanted to make her point. She made it loud and clear to AA, and AA handled it publicly probably a little better than they did with that email...maybe. I'm not going to dig any deeper than this thread, because it doesn't interest me THAT much, but I have seen more offensive advertisements for plus size women. I've even seen clothing companies that have gone for the straight for the bullseye and said "We don't sell any clothes larger than size large here." I think it's all just ridiculous in general.
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Re: American Apparel and their Search for Plus-Sized Models
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2011, 03:23:19 AM »
Reading Zephyr's response to this, I don't think Nancy was going at this in any kind of an artistic way. Instead she was attacking AA's use of puns, and offensive language in their advertisement.

I didn't mean the whole reason she did it was for artistic purposes; just that she did attack AA and make a statement through artistic means. Photography and modeling is an art - her photos are an artistic statement and that statement was an argument against AA's offensive puns. And I was just saying I could respect that kind of creativity.

In case that was unclear.
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Re: American Apparel and their Search for Plus-Sized Models
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2011, 03:30:26 AM »
Ah, yes, much more clear. Thanks.  :)
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Re: American Apparel and their Search for Plus-Sized Models
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2011, 03:20:24 PM »
As far as I've seen in articles, this here Nancy will be answering AA with an open letter soon. Though I've not looked too much into that right now, I'll probably add it if I come over it without a fuss.

What I'm interested in is to see her reaction. Did she expect the outcome? Did she want the job or would she have said no even if she won? And especially how she'll word herself to AA themselves after their mail.

I think she was right to state her opinion and bring awareness to the subject. I do support her in what she thought of their competition. However, I see how her gaining the most votes was less than ideal for AA. Hiring someone that is mocking your business sounds downright stupid!
But the way they explained themselves was very unprofessional and nonchalant of them. They could have done a much better job with this instead of just nourishing what Nancy has already pointed out.

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Re: American Apparel and their Search for Plus-Sized Models
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2011, 04:37:20 PM »
as a plus sized woman myself id find it very offensive AA's tactic of looking for the big models, (not to mention they have to put all caps on BIG every time they say it like"hey..your not just big, your HUUUGE"

i can honestly say i doubt she was even trying to win, i think she was just trying to make a creative point saying "oh, well if its a fatty they want. a fatty they will get"
and more did it to show everyone how much of a jack ares they were being about the whole thing.

and the letter they sent her, i found it rude and insulting to her intelligence. they wrote like 4 paragraphs saying "nuh UH!!! were not being mean, YOU ARE..you just dont understand us"
and i bet this is not the last we will hear of Nancy

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Re: American Apparel and their Search for Plus-Sized Models
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2011, 09:32:16 PM »
I find it most offensive of all that they never carried larger clothes to begin with, which, from the beginning means that they don't feel large people need to be wearing pretty clothes.
 
It's also completely bogus that they awarded the prizes to other models when she was the popular choice. If she's the popular choice, then you go with her!
 
Not that I would have picked her had she not been the popular choice, since I agree that you should pick a model who best illustrates your clothing without using food for props, no matter the artistic value, if you put pictures of a woman eating food like that or bathing in whatever in a magazine to promote your line, then plus sized women would be even more enraged because they likely wouldn't be able to get the message that she was trying put on a stunt and would think AA was outright cruel.
 
Anyway, I feel that plus sized women need to be treated as WOMEN, not as a seperate category that need special treatment. Clothing lines and fashion industries need to realize that they should carry every realistic size of clothing, not a select group of sizes.
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