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Author Topic: Probably going to offend some people, but I'd like some opinions...[Genderstuffs  (Read 708 times)

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Offline Dr. Alka Wolf

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Right. I'm going to cover a bit of ground here, and if relevant parties can contribute one or more answers to my questions, it would pull away from terrible, terrible ignorance. I'm sorry if anything I say is offensive, as it is truly not my intention here. I've tried to word things as best I can where I can, but yeah...


Q1 - Why deviate your gender?


I'm going to be frank and say, I just don't get it. That doesn't mean I'll judge/hate people for it. I mean, I've heard plenty of reasons, but it would be nice to have a few more.


Q2 - Whats the deal with this and that...?


Disclaimer: My next statement might offend some people. I'm not actively trying to, but as I said in the title, I'd like some opinions


Whats with all the 'extreme' stuff? Like, I can understand either wanting to be male, female, one sometimes and another other times, but... Neither? Both at the exact same time? What brought a decision like that around? (sorry for poor wording, can't think of any other way to word it). I especially can't wrap my head around being agender, because isn't the point of deciding on a gender (if you ever decide to deviate it) to aid in defining yourself? I mean, you could say you aren't really any... thing...? I'm really not sure here...


Q3 - Do any of you guys and gals (and everything in between or outside those barriers) get offended or nittled when gender isn't taken into consideration?

I don't mean when people say "No, you're not a girl, you're a guy." and vice-versa. I mean in cases where the only two genders being used are 'male and female'. Or when people say there are only two genders.




Any and all opinions are fine and welcomed. Please try to keep things civil, and also, no judging anyone for their thoughts here. This is a free discussion space, with the sole intention being to learn more about something I don't really know much about.
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Offline Vortex Cynbel

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I can see your points and I've had this conversation with a friend from school today so it's kinda recent.


Just to clear this up I am a male and I never really experienced any gender difference BUT many of my friends do so I might be able to answer some of your questions.


You see just like sexuality people feel genders are flexible. Why? Well it's because that's what makes them feel comfortable. You are bisexual so I feel you can relate.. Calling yourself bisexual is because you feel attraction to both genders. Have you ever considered why? Why me and nobody else? Well like sexuality, genders also develop within a person's mind. What I am trying to say is that some people may be feeling comfortable being a different gender from what they were assigned on their birth.


People often associate themselves with a team they feel they share common traits. Sexuality and genders I feel is no different. Someone feels bisexual because he relates with the ideology of this sexuality. Same goes for genders.


The reason many people believe that exist more than two genders is because they feel they don't belong to neither of the two genders. I have to admit as an outsider (someone who hasn't experienced any doubts in regards with gender) I find it odd too the amount of genders and how complex things are.. the thing is the same thing happens with sexualities. There are so many other than the standard LGBT.


Thing about more simple stuff.. Like joining a fandom or declaring you like something (for example being a furry). It's just how you feel at that time.. You don't really know sometimes why you feel you liking something you just do. Also side note that many people still are not sure about their gender because just like you and me haven't figured out these basic questions "Why? What? How?" .


If ever anyone asks me why I am bisexual I would say "I don't know. I just do and I like it.." . I feel that many people who feel they are a different gender other than male or female some of them still aren't sure why. Maybe they never will.. Honestly I still question why I am bisexual.. like what led me to the first place to become one but as long I feel comfortable with it, I just let it be like this..


Anyways.. since I am an outsider as I said multiple times above I can't answer to you completely but I hope I answered some of your questions :)
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Offline MrRazot

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Just to say, this is my impression from what I've researched.

Q1 - Why deviate your gender?

The biggest argument is that your brain (something you can't directly see) becomes either a female or a male brain (which can be determined through a cat scan). Females will have female brains and men will have male brains. It is possible that a female brain can develop in a male brain and vice versa. Another argument is that some people can be born with an extra X chromosome (men have XY and women have XX) so they could have YXX. Woman traits will show in a man (these guys are also usually born sterile) and they can go under corrective surgery to become a full on woman or man. Point is that there are a lot of really medical reasons for this and that biologically, there's not really a definite Male/Female in nature.

Q2 - Whats the deal with this and that...?

Do you associate yourself as 100% a man? If yes, why? Most Transgender people go through a process of being attracted to the opposite gender, becoming fascinated by that gender, trying to become that gender and realising that they are more comfortable as that gender (Men seeing they like to be softer and enjoy the strict routine of being a woman or woman liking the ease and masculinity of being a man). It could be that someone hates their gender and they don't want to be the other gender, so they become agender. Lady MacBeth famously said "Unsex me" so that she could perform the fowl deeds the intended to perform.

If you made me choose between two things and I like neither, there's always going to be another option in reality.

Q3 - Do any of you guys and gals (and everything in between or outside those barriers) get offended or nittled when gender isn't taken into consideration?

If you're a man who is proud of being a man, how are you going to take to being called a girly little bitch?
It doesn't just hold for Transgenders.


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Offline Ventus Fall

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Q1 - Why deviate your gender?

I think this is important to start off with: I want to say that gender is something else than sex.
Someone who is physically a male can have the mind of a female and vice versa. There are many variations/combinations/degrees, but I think it's very important in this discussion to clarify. Not everyone who has a gender which differentiates from their sex wants to physically be the other gender.
E.g. the difference between transgenders and transsexuals:
Quote
"Transgender people are people who have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from their assigned sex. Transgender people are sometimes called transsexual if they desire medical assistance to transition from one sex to another."
Basically transsexuals want/need to take steps to physically change. Transgenders do not necessarily want/need to take these steps.

Some people feel they are indeed 'born in the wrong body'. There are more and more studies and research looking into this and with some surprising results. Your gender is also determined by factors while you're still in the womb, depending on the amount of testosterone you get when being an embryo. For example check out this article: http://healthdoctrine.com/hormones-factors-in-fetus-gender-and-child-future-development/
  There are many more articles and studies related to this.

Basically, the answer to your first question and to put it crudely: Your brain decides, even from the moment you are being shaped and formed the basis is being set what you are gender-wise.
There are other factors as well, but this seem to play the largest part.


Q2 - Whats the deal with this and that...?


Disclaimer: My next statement might offend some people. I'm not actively trying to, but as I said in the title, I'd like some opinions


Whats with all the 'extreme' stuff? Like, I can understand either wanting to be male, female, one sometimes and another other times, but... Neither? Both at the exact same time? What brought a decision like that around? (sorry for poor wording, can't think of any other way to word it). I especially can't wrap my head around being agender, because isn't the point of deciding on a gender (if you ever decide to deviate it) to aid in defining yourself? I mean, you could say you aren't really any... thing...? I'm really not sure here...

You might have thought about this already, but it's not a 'decision' people make.
Besides the hormones, psychology and other factors... In fact even small choices you make like how you're going to answer a question or respond to certain situations is already pre-determined in your brain (discussions about free-will is a topic for another time). Your brain already has this... for a lack of a better word... 'manual' set up before anything happens.
In other words, the same can be said for this. You don't make a decision, you have no free will in what your gender is. You either are or are not a certain gender.

That all aside, when someone is agender doesn't mean they are 'nothing'. It means they are neither. Like how 0 (zero ) is not nothing. It's something. Just like how a blackhole is 'nothing': It is something, not nothing.
When people are agender they neither identify as a male or female (or anything else). They don't feel like they have female characteristics/traits or male characteristics/traits. Heck, you even have adrogynous people (having neither physical male nor female characteristics). So it wouldn't be too weird to assume you also have 'neither' with genders.

That all aside, it is so odd to label things. You can already see with genders as with other subjects there are just so many various things. It's impossible to create a label/group just to identify someone. However, labels also help mostly for others to understand someone. It's a weird paradox that humans are trying to deal with.
So we come up with more and more labels.
Like I said, you either are something or not. You do not choose to be it. There just happens to be various words and terms to describe yourself and to fit yourself in a group (if one would desire, but I wouldn't have cared myself :P).


Q3 - Do any of you guys and gals (and everything in between or outside those barriers) get offended or nittled when gender isn't taken into consideration?

I don't mean when people say "No, you're not a girl, you're a guy." and vice-versa. I mean in cases where the only two genders being used are 'male and female'. Or when people say there are only two genders.


I am genderfluid, so I don't care if someone calls me 'he/him' or 'she/her' :P I would prefer if people refer to me as a guy overall, however. In fact I am probably one of the few people who don't mind being called 'it' either. I don't see the word 'it' as a negative thing, moreso as an ungendered word. In Dutch for example they have two articles (instead of the one article in English 'the'). The Dutch have 'de'  and  'het'.
'De' is when a word is characterised being male or female (or plural). 'Het' is used when a word has no gender (is ungendered) or when the word is 'smallified'. (An example when a word is 'smallified':  the chair = de stoel, the small chair = het stoeltje).
It sounds odd, but bare with me. 
Maybe it's because of this and also me never understanding why people see 'it' as something negative to begin with, but I've never seen the word 'it' as something negative myself or only to describe inanimate objects or such. I've seen it as an ungendered word.

So no, I don't get offended, and frankly while I understand sometimes why some people can get offended in these types of situations I think people overall should accept that people see how they are physically and have a need to categorise others. If they see you are female, they will more likely call you a woman, whether they mean to offend you or not is usually not the question. A lot of people don't know or understand -nor can ever understand- who someone is mentally, how they actually feel and identify as.
I think on that aspect everyone can be a little more tolerant.
(Although when someone is actively trying to anger you by mentioning you're the gender you're not when you've explicitely stated to that person you identify yourself as something else, then that is very rude of course and not considerate.)


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Offline Malina

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As someone who has been completely lost about the state of my gender I may also be able to help

1) "Why deviate your gender?"
I personally think this has a lot to do with gender stereotypes we all know and hate love! Right now I'm just comfortable being me and not following any of society's roles of being male, and I wish more people would be like that. I guess some people think that because they like feminine things, like cooking or sewing, they must also be female inside (and vice versa for females liking male things). However in the flipside, there are also people with gender dysphoria who feel their physical body doesn't match with their minds and severely want to change that.

2) "What's the deal with this and that?"
I guess this would also have to deal with the gender roles, maybe not liking male or female things or both at the same time. I don't know about bigender people or gender fluid people, but for agenders (like what I may be) it's like you don't feel like you're either gender. Like Razor said, if someone asks you if you like football or rugby, you can like neither.

3) "Do you get offended when people misgender you?"
This will differ from person to person, but keep personally I couldn't give less of a toss. Although when people do refer to me as a man or something like that, it brings back all the confusion and frustration of not knowing what I am. I can understand how painful this must be for transgenders now.

Anyways those are just my opinions and experiences with some very limited knowledge as well. I find this part of psychology very interesting and look forward to hearing what other people have to say on this topic
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There is already a ton of good info above but I figured I'd give my two cents (and procrastinate doing a test)


Quote
Q1 - Why deviate your gender?
As said above its not really something you just choose to do. You don't wake up one morning and say i wasn't to be gender fluid!
In my experience When i was very little- before i really understood the differences in a male or females body i assured myself many times that "My doctor is stupid and said I'm a girl- but hes wrong. He just didn't see it properly" Those were actually my thoughts as a child. That my doctor was dumb and couldn't tell the difference.
When I got older and knew better i was crushed at what my gender really was. It didn't fit, I didn't like it, and for a long time I just accepted it while always feeling like I simply didn't fit.
So now that I'm quite a bit older and willing to try and find where i am more comfortable gender wise. I've called myself agender. I don't know if that is the best or proper term. All i know is I still don't fully understand my feeling towards my gender or lack there of.


Quote
Q2 - Whats the deal with this and that...?
Quote
Whats with all the 'extreme' stuff? Like, I can understand either wanting to be male, female, one sometimes and another other times, but... Neither? Both at the exact same time? What brought a decision like that around? (sorry for poor wording, can't think of any other way to word it). I especially can't wrap my head around being agender, because isn't the point of deciding on a gender (if you ever decide to deviate it) to aid in defining yourself? I mean, you could say you aren't really any... thing...? I'm really not sure here...
This is again just my experience- I cant speak for anyone else. My decision to call myself agender comes from feelings i cant control. I don't feel female. Never have. Very uncomfortable with the idea of being female. But at the same time I wanted to be a boy so badly when I was younger, part of me still does, but i don't understand men very well. Never had a father or male figure in my life. So I feel stuck in limbo almost where I just don't fit in either gender.
Some days I am more feminine, some days more masculine, but normally I'm just me.


Quote
[size=0px]Q3 - Do any of you guys and gals (and everything in between or outside those barriers) get offended or nittled when gender isn't taken into consideration?[/size][/u]

nope. I am a person who is very hard to offend and live in a very close minded family. My family does only consider there to be two genders. I'm used to hearing offensive things and just ignoring them. People call me a girl because I look like a girl- I don't take offense to that. So no, I'm never offended because I just don't really care how others see me- I care more about how my friends see me and how I see myself.




Hopefully I helped a tiny bit
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Perhaps I can give some insight as well, as I lebel myself as agender.

1. Why deviate your gender?
First of all, because I don't like my identity to be in the gender binary. The gender binary is much more than just male or female. Each side has their own gender role and expectations in society. By identifying as agender, I feel like I give myself more freedom to do what I want to do whilst using my sex to dodge trouble.
Secondly, I've seen myself as neither male nor female for a long time by now anyways. I also never really fitted into the binary gender system.

2. Whats the deal with this and that?
To easify explaining agender, I'll compare it with asexuality. If people experience something that isn't labelled yet, and it's such a big part of who they are, they make a label for it. From the asexual community I've heard a lot of people don't seem to be able to wrap their head around asexuality. Yet, asexuals are affected by it every single day. Since they aren't sexually attracted to anyone, they want to identify as such. It's not just 'deciding on being X or Y', there's still a lot about humans nobody understands. The same, then, can be applied to agender people.
And no offense, but to me identifying as male or female is just as extreme.

3. Do any of you get offended or nittled when gender isn't taken into consideration?
Here's another reason why I don't like the gender binary. It's either X or Y, and everything that doesn't fit into it is somehow pushed back into it. IRL nobody knows of me being agender, and I'm fine with he, she and they anyways. What does bothers me is how intersex are pushed into male or female if there's something odd about the genitelia, and how people are pushed towards behaving like they "should" behave for their percieved sex.

 

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