Vegetarianism

[Hunter568]

I'm doing a research project on vegetarianism, so I figured I'd do the survey part through the forum. Thanks for your resposes!

[anoni]

I'm not a vegetarian, but I absolutely agree being vegetarian is considerably better for the environment than not being a vegetarian. When we use almost as much land to feed animals as we do to feed people, then we need land to actually feed those animals and so forth, it's quite shocking. Plus animal emissions contribute significantly to greenhouse gasses. Altogether the work we have to put in per KJ for meat is so much more than it is for vegetarian, we're literally getting animals to process food so we can later process the leftovers they haven't already used, rather than cutting out the middle man and just processing the food ourselves.

  I don't think that everyone going vegan or vegetarian would end world hunger, as world hunger seems to be more due to artificial scarcity rather than actual scarcity (perhaps though when you take into account transport and stuff, who knows). But I think it would dramatically improve the environment and greenhouse emissions.

[MrRazot]

Humans need to eat meat one way or another for them good old B vitamins.
I think either extreme is bad in if the whole world went vegetarian we'd be as screwed as if we all started exclusively eating meat. I Personally believe that it's best to have a Meaty Monday while eating as much veg based foods during the week. Avoiding meat based products like the plague is silly.


In terms of the environment: cows produce methane, fish farming pollutes the ocean, fishing en mass stops fish from being able to reproduce, and the chicken industry is basically toxic.


It's far more worthwhile to go and source organic meat for once a week instead of mass produced meat that has gone under questionable practices that also harm the environment.

[Brisky]

Plus, I figure "the cows" are kinda there living, doing their stuff, and dying, anyways.

We might as well eat them, if we're at it anyways...


It's only when we start breeding and keeping excessive amounts of cattle, in really bad and unhealthy ways (wich is now) where stuff starts to become harmfull...

[Momma Bird]

@ A Brisky Little Challenger, wait, what!? How savage! We actually prefer to bury our dead! lol.


@Hunter568, I don't have an answer for you on if vegetarianism is good for the environment or not, sorry. To be honest, I don't think it's what we are consuming as individuals that is causing problems, but us just being on this planet, that is what I believe the problem is. I have no objections on peoples choice on what they eat, but I personally would prefer to be a vegan to reduce suffering of animals. But it is a tricky diet to do, because if not done right, could cause a lot of serious health issues. I am slowly working towards it, but not sure if I will ever really have it down pat.

[anoni]

Well a few things will happen if we stop eating meat, one thing is almost all the cows, chickens, pigs and so forth will die, because their species are now almost entirely codependent on humanity. But I still feel the benefit of the entire world would be significantly improved.

  Two other ideas that have been going around that might be a good middle ground between going vegan/vegetarian and saving the environment.

  1. Farm bugs! Actually, IMO, this is a really good idea. Bugs have plenty of protein and vitamin and they're much easier and environmentally friendly than other large animals, plus there's less of an ethical concern cause bugs don't really have much higher forms of thinking. There is the gross factor to get rid of but once the meat has been processed, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a beef patty and a bug patty, in fact the FDA even allows a small amount of bug meat to go through inspection, so your beef patty may have a little bit of bug in it already.

  2. Clone meat: This is basically the ideal but we haven't gotten to this stage of technology just yet but we've gotten very close. Once we can clone meat on-mass there will be no need to use animals at all, it'll be more environmentally friendly, we'll be able to eat all the meat we want and there is no ethical concerns.

[Brisky]

@Mm

Erhm, what?

I meant "the cows" as a collective term towards farm cattle, not as a indignifying term towards humans.


@An

I don't really agree with your point on farm species going extinct.

Besides meat, farm cows, goats, sheep, and chicken all serve other purposes aswell, being milk, wool, and eggs, so I don't think that they would dissapear. The only farm species that might really go extinct, if we didn't keep it for meat, I think is the pig.

Plus, I believe that the exact same thing was said about horses, in the era that the ICE became a viable thing.

"What's gonna happen to horses if everybody starts using those fancy new petrol engines to pull their cars?"

Well, what turned out was going to happen to horses, is that people stopped seeing them as tools/machinery, and started keeping them as pets, and using them for sports.

Something similair may happen to farm animals.


But about bug meat. This may come faster than you think!

In scertain places in south America, (and undoubtedly a few other places) people are already eating bugs on a daily basis. And, besides how most of them aren't bad for your health at all, most western tourists that go there, and actually have the nerve to eat fried tarantula, or grasshopper pancakes will say that they actually taste really good!

And, not so long ago, I stumbled into a random market thingy, meant for dog owners, (In the Netherlands) and saw a brand of dog food that seemed to be entirely made from some sort of insect. So, who knows how long it'll take before we humans here in the NA, and Europe, find out that we can eat bugs too?

[Momma Bird]

@ A Brisky Little Challenger


Yea, sorry, I actually read it as "the CROWS" not "the cows". Thought it was a playful jab at me. My narcissism is showing.

[anoni]

You're probably right about the animals not going extinct when we don't eat them, we'll still use them for many other types of animal products, including leather and stuff.

[Momma Bird]

But we already have synthetic versions of leather and fur. I know it's unrealistic, however, I would love to see a day where clone meat is perfected and no animals would have to die. Farm animals are kept alive, but as pets. Though it is all levels of gross, I think I would even prefer bug meat over animal meat. Just my thoughts.

[Brisky]

Science is already starting to get pretty close to that, with the whole stem cell business, I believe.

I've read about it a few years ago, so I'm not shure where it stands now, or if it still even is anything more than a news article that got populair somewhere around 2014, but...

After reading a bit about it on wikipedia it has supposedly already been a thing since 2013, with the only problem being that it's waaay too expensive to be an economically viable alternative to meat...

(Seriously, I've read that about two-hundred-thousand money's worth of funding were neccecary to make one single hamburger...)

[anoni]

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) there's also a lot of Ethical legislation that's kinda in the way for development here too.

[Brisky]

There isn't. Cultured meat kinda seems to get the ethical "two thumbs up" because the only thing that it's production requires from live cattle is a few jabs of stem-cells. And, even then, that's said to only be required to get the ball rolling, in the starting stages. For the rest, the cultured meat doesn't contain any form of nervous system, soo it can't even theoretically feel pain, either.

The only somewhat ethical downside to it, would be that conciderably sophisticated technology is required to make it, making it harder for small scale, self-sufficient communities to produce it, and making the market even more dependant on large scale industries.

And, ofcourse, scertaint religions don't really agree with it either....

But, besides that, I'd say that cultured meat (provided that it is safe to eat and doesn't affect long-term health) is pretty much a straight upgrade from killing animals to get meat.

And, I even don't see a reason for small scale production to not go with their time, and learn how to produce cultured meat in small scale production processes. I think that, if a large company can do it, so could a small one.

[Momma Bird]

And organized religion shows up to the party again. What possibly could their objections be!? Is it Judaism or Christianity? Some even argue that it is against God's perfect plan for humans and animals to eat each other. Here is a verse that can be used to support the claim;


“And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”
-Geneses 1:29-31 (KJV)


There is also a claim of a case where someone's pet lion who wont even eat meat at all, and is still supposedly healthy. I have not cross referenced this, so I can not vouch it's legitimacy. Just something I have heard.


Never thought about the pain aspect though. I guess clone meat would technically be alive.

[Jenny ♥]

I myself am a flexible vegan. Means I generally am a vegan but occassionally happen to consume animal products. Rather rare though.


However, I don't think vegetarism helps the environment (nor does veganism). We might use less land for animals but more for plants. We still would have to destroy woodlands and create fields and stuff. The only thing which might be good: less methane gas could harm the atmosphere. Then again - purely hypothetically - if humans eat less animals, there would be more animals alive which would mean more methane gas and more feeding grounds again combined with the fields for veggies and such.


Either way, we don't really help the environment in my opinion with that. I like it how humanity handles it now. Some vegans, some vegetarians, some inbetween (pescetarian etc) and some omnivores. That's totally fine with me and also helps the environment the most, I guess. It's a perfect balance. Nothing else than in the animal's world.