Has anyone ever rooted for the 'villains' before?

[ST-84 Sahelanthropus]

I just recently started thinking about this when I was recalling some memories of watching Spider-Man cartoons on TV, and I watched an episode on YouTube just a little earlier.

In the Spider-Man series, (This is a very 'layman' explaination of how it is, so forgive me for any possible lore mistakes) a man named Curt Connors lost an arm during a war where he was a battlefield medic. After the war, he returned home and began researching the ability of certain Reptiles to regrow missing limbs, and eventually makes a serum that he tests on himself. He regains his lost arm, but later he transforms into a Reptilian Humanoid called the Lizard. He retains his own scientific knowledge, intellect, speech, memories, and other 'Human' qualities, but becomes physically superior in every way, from strength and toughness to speed and stamina. He also develops a new personality that sees a world where Humans are transformed into superior Lizard people, and he almost succeeds, but Spider-Man puts a stop to the Lizard's 'evil scheme' and saves the day.

When I was a kid, I kind of knew it would happen, because Spider-Man and the other Superheroes never lose, but I was bummed when the Lizard's plan was foiled and he was turned back into Curt Connors, who is again missing his arm. Now, I start to wonder, wouldn't the writers and animators have wanted kids to cheer for Spider-Man? Why was it that I wanted, and in this case still do want, the 'bad guy' to win? I can't be alone, can I? :P

[LeafTheSwift]

I all ways go for the villin. In the games im all ways the villin as well

[Chronic Payne]

I can actually relate to what you are saying as in terms of wanting the bad guy to win, A lot of villains in old movies, cartoons, anime, books, and ect.

But what I find sad is most bad guys are seen as wanting the world to burn, but I'm sure the villains you are meaning are those who have purpose, for the better of all through the blood shed of a few, and after thinking over his plans as he explains it... I'm thinking of a couple baddies, but most that come to mind are a few in Cowboy Bebop,

Recently was from the Game [Prototype2], kinda felt bad when you killed Alex.
I hope that is what you meant.

[ST-84 Sahelanthropus]

Well, yeah. The kind of 'villain' I'm talking about is not the typical one, but the one that is, at least to some, not a villain at all. Of course since all people have different opinions and stuff, there could be somebody that agreed with a villain who is TRULY evil, like Palpatine in Star Wars.

But what I'm talking about are those that seem to be doing good when you think about it, but are for some reason made out to be bad guys. 'Villains' like the Lizard don't wanna hurt or kill anybody, in fact they want the opposite. He wants to share the regenerative abilities and other strengths given by the serum by transforming everyone into Lizardpeople, wether they like it or not. I, personally, wouldn't see anything really bad about it, and I felt this way way before I became biased and got into the Scaly stuff. :P

[Chronic Payne]

Lol, I gotcha! Those who mean well but are thrown as evil cause it seems harsh or very excessive? Or even how you say are just different, via The Lizard.

[ST-84 Sahelanthropus]

I also remember an episode of Kim Possible where this guy goes into a polluted lake and becomes something like the Creature from the Black Lagoon. My memory on it is fuzzy, and I can't seem to find it on YouTube, but I think he wanted revenge on the people that made him go in the water. So he tries to turn them into 'Black Lagoon' monsters like him, I think so he wouldn't be alone, but Kim Possible stops him and saves the people he captured. Of course, his goal was a bit different, he didn't like being what he became, but I thought he was better than Humans despite it. He could breathe on land and under water, and from what I remember he had super-Human strength and agility, when before he was just a kid. Why stop it, and why resent it?

This 'bad guy forces people to transform' trope, either as a gift or a curse, is all over the place in movies, comic books, TV shows, video games, and other stuff, those are only a couple examples. I think I think more statistically on these sorts of things. Where most people would probably go "Ew, I turned into a monster, woe is me" I would weigh the pros and cons of the change, if there are any real cons for me to worry about, and would probably embrace it fairly quickly, if not immediately. Clearly, I was somehow not raised right. :P

[CryWolf]

Im only guessing... But do you mean villians that can in some way be redeemed and seen through a different angle on the situation. Because if it is I would have to go with Director Tidemen from dead space 2. The main reason is because later in the story you realise that in many ways Tideman wanted to save the Sprawl (main city in the game) But seeing that he couldent stop the necromorph outbreak he allowed for the Sprawl to be evacuated. He actually was disobeying his supperiors when he gave the order. Now I often wonder what would have happened if Isaac left the Sprawl to Tideman and evacuated with everyone else.

[Rhoryc]

I usually only root for the villains when I hate the protagonists.

[Otebon Albrecht]

All...

...the...

... TIME

Usually for me, though, it isn't that I dislike the protagonist or that the story is weak, or even that the "villain" is "redeemable" or "just trying to do something good in a bad way." For me, the main reason that I usually root for the villain (such as Scar in The Lion King, or Andrew Ryan in Bioshock I [Yes... he isn't "the villain" per se, but he is the "prime enemy" for the majority of the game], or even some of the Forsaken in the Wheel of Time book series because they usually have so much more thought put into their characters and there is just more to them for me, the reader / watcher / player to enjoy, as well as they're characters are much more likable than the protagonist.

For example, Scar in The Lion King (as I can assume that I can use that one without bothering people and most people have seen / heard of this character?) was a perfect example of a villain. He was the main antagonistic force in the story, had a plan for domination, carried it through with a perfect mix of duplicity and intelligence due to his lacking physical strength, and had the perfect "presence" "on screen." However, you weren't supposed to like Scar. He was the bad guy. You were supposed to be singing Hakuna Matata and cheering Simba on every single time he smacked Scar in the face.

But... Simba was an idiot throughout the entire movie. Easily manipulated, could not gather support behind him (he needed Nala to gain any sort of backup and his only other friends were worthless when it came to insurrection and combat), and only really won because of adrenaline, emotion, and Scar's pride of seeing the battle over with.

Compare that to Scar's movements within the movie. Manipulated the current leadership structure with little more than double-entendres and scarcasm, knew exactly what to say and when to say it because of his great intellect, had a devoted follower base in the Hyenas, and was an excellent military commander with some skill in running covert operations that assassinated a king by creating a stampede. In fact, the only things that went WRONG for Scar during the entire movie was the the stampede didn't kill Simba as well as Mufasa (which he thought he immediately fixed by making Simba run off into the badlands which would have probably killed him through exposure anyways) and losing the climatic final battle.

So yeah. I root for the villain when they are like that.


Oh, and The Lion King is Disney's adaptation of Hamlet, just in case no one knew.

[Sparky15756]

Sometimes the villians are the most under-appreciated characters in any movie, though there's some that are truly lovable like Megamind for example .

[WingedZephyr]

^ What Otebon said.

Scar has always been my favorite Lion King character.

A well-written villain is always far more entertaining than a bumbling hero. (To me, at least.) That's why I like shows and movies like Dexter or Breaking Bad, where they turn a typical "villain" into the "hero" of the story. The main characters are pretty bad people on the surface, but their motivations for what they do are clear and they're really good at being bad.

[Midnight Madness]

Never have I actually cheered for legitimate villains. Like Nihil, I could give a break to those who have a decent enough cause. But no matter how well written, how well designed, how badass and imposing they are, or how foolish the protagonist is... I've never been able to root for the villain. I just can't. I'm always rooting for the hero, even if I know the outcome.

Now don't get me wrong. I don't just outright dislike the villain, I just refuse to root for them. I think some villains are really awesome in some ways. I think tons of villains are badasses, that goes for some of their underlings as well. So yes, I do like Scar myself.

The Joker in nearly all iterations has been a very interesting villain to me; maniacal, intimidating despite his appearance, creative, crafty, conniving and just the perfect obstacle for Bruce Wayne.

Venom is an epic villain. I prefer to play as him over Spider Man in the Ultimate Spider Man game. I mean come on, he freaking "eats" people to survive and can throw cars over buildings, even jump after said cars and pass them! Besides, he is his own ally and nobody else's. Standalone badass.

I could go on and on with the list of villains I find awesome, but not even for a second could I root for them, sticking to how they do things. If someone has a good cause, good intentions, but has a questionable manner of doing it... I personally wouldn't call them a villain, just misguided or misunderstood.

[ST-84 Sahelanthropus]

Great insight everyone. I didn't think this topic would be discussed like this. :o

There are some bad guys that are cool and interesting, sometimes even likable in some senses, but I won't ever support their causes. The Joker's a rather brilliant character and is often entertaining in pretty twisted ways, but he wants chaos, fear, and anarchy. I couldn't stand by that.

[KoalaJen]

Only ever rooted for the villains a few times. Usually that's only if that character is interesting enough for me to warrant my support for them, like GlaDOS for example in the game Portal. Which is funny considering I despised the other villains in that universe such as the combine in Half-Life 2. Guess it's because she wasn't destroying the environment at an accelerated rate and instead was just doing research.

Another example of me liking the heck out of a villain were the slivers in Magic: The Gathering. What's not to like about a rapidly adapting, mutation sharing, sentient colony of "bugs". Sure they killed off entire species, but think about their social nature, they have zero bigotry amongst members of their own species. It doesn't matter if your different than others in your social group, you'll all share your differences amongst each other. Gaining the advantages and disadvantages associated with those differences. Sure, it's a form of homogenization within a particular group, but it's not like your going to be hating on someone with four arms, because encountering them has caused you to have four arms too! So you'd only be hating yourself too. Brilliant!

Also they accept non-organic, artificially created slivers as well into their group. That level of acceptance is amazing and they're a major villain in that multiverse! Crazy! I'll admire them, as long as they stay in a plane where I am not... I'm not stupid. I respect them, but yeah, they'd freakin' murder me in seconds.

[BakaFawkes]

lol, who doesn't like Darth Vader?


I'm a good fan of those anti-hero types, not the "pure villain" dudes, though.
My lead example is the Didact from the Halo series. Such a deep story behind why he tried to wipe out humanity (twice). If he were to succeed in blowing up Earth in Halo 4, I'd probably get over it eventually.


KoalaJen pointed out my other example already (GlaDOS). Darn good thinking.