Sexual Orientation Poll 2014

[Kaiyo]

Words are constructs and a conceptual invention of cultural beliefs. The standard of gender differs from biological sex, this is a core argument in transgenderism (in contrast to transsexuality). Though, long ago gender and sex both referred to the same thing. Everything is physical, biology describes physical functionality of organism, therefore definitively you can class all of life's doing as biological workings from a fatalistic perspective. But this dismisses entropy / free will which extends beyond existing mechanism and permits an individual to create a basis for future evolution, your great great great grandchildren may be nothing like humans are today. The gender/sex argument is a definist issue pertaining to the natural fallacy..

[George]

 your great great great grandchildren

haha



I can't have kids.

[Trixsie Vixen]

*rolls eyes*


You don't know how lucky you are BillyBob! 1/2 jk


I agree in part Kaiyo, people use sex and gender interchangeably and one is almost pure biology while the other is almost pure culture.  To me sexual orientation is clearly seen in cases where someone loves another person and wished they were sexually attracted but are unable to be due to the sex of the person they love.  It is a preference which defies desire.


As for words being constructs, certainly all my sociology professors would agree, but it is far from settled and too off topic but Steven Pinker makes a convincing argument against that.


I agree that it is intertwined with the naturalistic fallacy, but not always in the simple case of misuse by homophobes  "it's unnatural" but in the general distaste of the Humanites to allow biology to enter discussions of behaviour and pre-empt the possible use of the naturalistic fallacy by waving aside nature as though we're somehow beyond all that now, rather than just calling it when it is used. (but that's a whole other hobby horse of mine)


I don't follow your point on entropy/free will.  It might be worth taking to another thread or PM however.  I think I know what you meant but I'm not sure... arguments for why determinism does not equal fatalism are not for the feint of heart!

[The Past]

Thank you, Trixie. While it's nice to discuss this topic, it is best to make a new thread about it for wider discussion.

[Kaiyo]

@BillyBobJoeGeorge
You / the science may (or may not, to point) change. You've changed once/many times and there's nothing static about your current quantum structure, we're all matter. There's nothing eternally concrete about anyone's current sense of being, whether current/previous/future perceptions be more or less right in some school of thought. The example was applied to the evolution, the purpose connected to sexual "reproduction".

@Trixsie Vixen:
The words change across languages, cultures and eras, right now, many countries have a different vision. The logic is relative to the function role, this is what arises gender stereotypes.

I mentioned entropy because entropy always affects change to the existing system. For every step in a organised system's actions (organism) there is a uncertainty of direction. Biological function does not entirely determine how it will come to action, for example there is no prewritten framework to govern my actions dynamically that can be applied to everyone. We all have our own minds, sexuality can be dynamic as there are not many extreme physical forces involved but rather complex cognition leading to uncertainty. Whereas, we can be statistically be more certain that a overwhelming force will lead to an inevitable result in respect to cover_area. This is why the "I am abstract A therefore I can only do what abstract A can do" is presuming as abstracts don't account entirely for the complexity of facts, even though "Fact A is true therefore fact A is true" is correct which leads to far more certainty. If you want a thread for this that's up to you, I'm just explaining the reasoning to my response which in turn showed reason which appears to be continuously argued. I was excluded.

My perception of sexuality is far more complex than what the polls suggest, I am not bi and polysexuality is defined just as much as the rest. I can add I hace just as much right to my sexual preference as anyone else as a individual.

[Trixsie Vixen]

I'm pretty sure this poll was an improvement over the last one.  Polysexual seems to be the type which I felt was missing but didn't know a name for.  It rejects the gender binary of bisexuality, but doesn't assume the gender blindness of pansexuality.  The sweet spot between the two.  Or possibly a type which bi and pan could be seen as the two extremes of.

I have been toying with, changing from bi to pan, one seems too narrow but the other one too broad for me. 

Hmmm, I guess I'm polysexual in 2015 then.

[anoni]

Ah, the age old argument of nature vs nurture, is gender nature or nurture?

WELL, I have to say, like almost everything, it is probably both. Basically, genes describe who you are and how your personality relates, there may be a sexuality gene or a cluster of genes that loosely come to form sexuality, as well as your gender. The thing is that you have many genes that remain unactivated, they only activate under certain environmental conditions such as large amounts of stress or something like that. So the actual stuff comes from the genes, but sometimes only these genes activate under some condition that forms from your environment, ie: gender is both a physical thing and a social thing, it probably comes from some physical chemistry that you must have in order to be of a specific gender, but the chemistry may only "activate" given a series of conditions that are influenced from your environment.

[The Past]

That's pretty much my take on it as well, Anoni. I've been wanting to say my argument on the topic, but I wasn't sure if it was a good place to do so, plus my tablet makes text wall typing difficult. (The times I complain about my tablet on the forums should become a drinking game or something. )

[IceRaccoon]

Hmmm... I do think hormone differences (which you either are born with or not) can alter your sexuality to any degree. Anyways i don't buy into the naturalistic argument, sexuality is flexible its not something static, otherwise other animals wouldn't possess homosexual behavior, like i'm really tired of the argument that homosexuality isn't natural when it clearly has been monitored in nature, including sexuality and the ability to be the care taker of children. Anyways i just want to point out that this thread is pointless unless we also include sexual fetishes.

[Trixsie Vixen]

Matt Ridley has a rather good book called Nature Via Nurture.  But in it's absence just that phrase is a useful thing.  As Anoni points out nature and nurture are interdependent.


But this thread is about who identifies as what and so finding a category which isn't covered but people identify as is a valuable exercise.


As for fetishes, well I start by listing mine...


Nah, kidding
I think this thread is still valuable without them (though I admit I am curious) and indeed, the subject matter couldn't progress much further without becoming less family friendly.


For a very complex topic within an age restriction Razot has done a great job.  Bring on the 2015 poll!

[Kaiyo]

@anoni:
Genes are the result of the environment, are a component of the environment and are constantly affected by the environment. Evolution is adaption to surroundings. Old or new genes, it doesn't matter, cognition makes the end verdict and that is physically / psychologically reactive. That said, regardless of what you feel, you'll never know what you really like if you were born on an unknown planet as the sole member of your species with no other life but primitive that happens to sustain you.

Your choices aren't genes, to note. A thermonuclear explosion affects your action when it detonates, yet it has little to do with your genes choosing what to do. We're physical beings and our bodies are more like a sub-machine than a standalone thing (technically, no machine is standalone eternal).

[anoni]

Please don't talk about fetish stuff.

I was going to make a long post in response to your Kaiyo but I'd probably be going off-topic so I'll just PM it to you.

[Renefrade]

I had a friend who asked a confusing question. Are Bisexuals confused? With whether they like both and are just happy to be with one they like and find, or is it driven on lust and cant be satisfied with just this gender.

[Renefrade]

I was just asking I have a friend who just wonders on it in general so i started to ask if any of you know more about it, and would love to hear your opinions on it.

[IceRaccoon]

We Bisexuals are just sexually attracted to both, its no difference from being hetero or homosexual.