opinion on bronies/ask your questions to a brony

[Snow Kittie]

The following is based on comprehensive, archived research regarding the interactions between furries and bronies:

*cut*

Big hug?

Seems a bit ridiculous, all of this drama. Also seems like the fandom desperately needs a more definite definition and a clear line between "yes I am a furry" and "no I'm not a furry". what scares me is the split you mentioned between anthro and cute animals. I like both and don't want to be torn ):

On a lighter note - I like the name furry much better than fuzzy.

[Midnight Madness]

What are all the subdivisions to the umbrella of the anthropomorphic fandom?

Furries, Bronies/Pegasisters, Mechs (anthropomorphic technologies, like planes), High Fantasy (Elves, Gnomes, Dwarves, werewolves), High Science Fiction/Xenos (Turian, Acklay, Xenomorphs, Predators, etc), Pokefurs, Digifurs, Sonic, Monsters, Original Species and a few others I'm forgetting.

It's vast, so I know I can't hit all of them. These are groups that tend to consider themselves aside from the others in some way, even if some less than others. But once again, nobody has to be a part of this umbrella if they don't wish.

[PROPER RESEARCH AND HUG OF PEACE]

I see a lot less fit pitching between bronies and furries as of late, so the two fandoms are obviously moving forward a bit. I mean, on top of that, every single Brony I know in real life (excluding ONE) is a furry as well; that's five people who split between the two, one who is Brony only, and one who is Furry only among that group.

[Kozy]

@Snow Kittie:
This is the trouble with Internet subcultures, the subgroups define it. Furry has always had its drama and has been ridiculed for it, especially when it spreads to other things like YouTube (reference YouTube Furry War which resulted in furries becoming a troll target) and Second Life, Gaia, etc.

@Sytex:
It seems so, though some wouldn't fit under a more scientific definition I guess, for example, elves can be considered of adopting human-animal attributes but history has not shown exactly whether this distortion of features was direct or not. Long ears could equal, say, a animal attribution in a human-animal character. Dwarves? Would they really pass as furry? They're very human I'd say, certainly you could say with real life dwarfism that dwarves are real and property in fictive origin to natural human genetics.

Pokemon and digimon, uses kemono-like design methods, apparently, but may or may not be anthropomorphic animal-species. Certainly, Lucario and any animal pokemon etc with human attributes like a face is easily a human-like animal. That being, about the median definition of a furry character.

The thing with labels, you don't just choose yourself what you are but others do, too. I'm pretty sure wilc lions don't call themselves lions yet we do, or at least English speaking folk do. There's also so many languages. We call things in groups to identify similarity, some even do so for the us vs them argument (pack-like thinking). If someone calls me any label, right or wrong to me of some standard, I can't stop them, not without social pressure anyway. For example, I could call certain people friends which others consider enemies. In this respect, labels can be very subjective and in masses require a  consensus.

You're right that bronies and furries are coming together more, it seems so.

I think as long as we get on there's nothing wrong, there'll always be more or less slightly more similar minded on certain things. Identity and group in the end is only pertaining to what we want and need and at the core that is something that you can build bridges on, we're all people here. If someone likes MLP/bronies and identifies as a brony then they'll do just that, if they have desire to be with the things furry offers and deny identifying with a furry then they're less likely to be out in the box with furries and receive what they actually wanted. But if a brony only likes furry then I see no reason to identify with furry, unless there's a psychological reason then why not? The only last element is xenophobia and group consistency, and it seems instinctually people take care of this for better or worse.

[Midnight Madness]

By Pokemon and Digimon, not only are they animalistic creatures, but they are animalistic creatures with societal structures and distinct degrees of sentience pertinent to anthropomorphism, and certain fans find that particularly interesting and wish to impose their own images onto them. In that instance, I'm pretty sure it qualifies. As for elves and the like, they are humanoid in a way, and they tend to mingle with the anthropomorphic community much like monster players. It's a non human with human-like characteristics, and thus borders between the two ares, but are often considered something close. And yes, labels are subjective;I reiterate once more, one may consider themselves under the umbrella or not, it is not to be foisted. It's just that they have their own place beneath it if they wish.

[Kozy]

I don't think a lot of the electronic Pokemon would easily pass as furry, they're anthropomorphic sure but not animalistic. Though a lot of Pokemon are animalistic and anthropomorphic to add. There's a few definitions for anthropomorphism actually, 'something that appears to have a human or human-like morph' or 'a non-human morph that possesses or represents human traits' (also known as personification. Of course, certain non-furry characters take part in furry fiction, there's plenty humans and elves etc in furry lore and people who identify as these characters for example may assume this identity in furrydom. Furrydom has the bonus of identity for a fan unlikely some other fandoms and you don't need your identity in the furry fandom to be furry. Labels are subjective and consensus oriented for what it assumes both subjective, standard and objective things. To this day there's no furry standards, all is assumed in conversation and ever-changing coverage. This is not just a trait of furrydom, though. Also, pokemon are pocket monsters. A standard definition of monsters in parts is "a creature with a mixture of human, animal and various non-organic or elemental traits".

[Snow Kittie]

I don't think a lot of the electronic Pokemon would easily pass as furry, they're anthropomorphic sure but not animalistic. Though a lot of Pokemon are animalistic and anthropomorphic to add. There's a few definitions for anthropomorphism actually, 'something that appears to have a human or human-like morph' or 'a non-human morph that possesses or represents human traits' (also known as personification. Of course, certain non-furry characters take part in furry fiction, there's plenty humans and elves etc in furry lore and people who identify as these characters for example may assume this identity in furrydom. Furrydom has the bonus of identity for a fan unlikely some other fandoms and you don't need your identity in the furry fandom to be furry. Labels are subjective and consensus oriented for what it assumes both subjective, standard and objective things. To this day there's no furry standards, all is assumed in conversation and ever-changing coverage. This is not just a trait of furrydom, though. Also, pokemon are pocket monsters. A standard definition of monsters in parts is "a creature with a mixture of human, animal and various non-organic or elemental traits".

I agree. Many pokemon have little or no traits that are similar to that of a human.

[Kozy]

@Snow Kittie:
Well some, though all are idealised to a human-mental context.
I was more referring that some are anthropomorphic but not anthropomorphic animals, certainly the electrode Pokemon aren't animalistic and muk for example is just goo with a face (can be classed anthropomorphic.

[Snow Kittie]

@kozy well if they have a Human-mental context they must be some pretty dumb humans. Living in a small ball, knowing no English nor any OTHER human language. Only able to say there name in some cases?

before posting I had considered that maybe although not anthro they may be human-like in other ways but I just don't see it...

[Kozy]

@Snow Kittie:
Humans vary in intelligence, certainly many have an infantile attitude (hence appealing to younger generations). What's wrong with living in a small ball and not knowing English or being a mute? Not everyone speaks English or likes open spaces

Also there's not a single type of intelligence, ever since the term intelligence came about it referred to many types of mental skill, everyone is intelligent at different things. Kinesthetic, visual/spatial, interpersonal and intellectual intelligences to name a few.

Anthro is measured in degrees and various measures, there's a lot that make a human a human and a human doesn't even need to look like a human to be a human, certainly a human brain in a jar didn't cease to be a human if its still alive, at least. It's what we recognise and identify with that counts.

Certainly, many Pokemon undeniably have human facial expressions. Not say other animals don't or can't have these traits but if its there then it's pretty significant. "Oh that Pokemon looks like it's smiling", yes the sort of thing that makes anthropomorphism something you can connect with, it's aesthetic in art. However, suppose there's an alien like the Vulcans out there, I wonder if they'll suppose if we are vulcan-morphic or that they are anthropomorphic. Google "convergent evolution", as in the big scale of things, the conversational attribution of "anthropomorphism" is purely that, subjective, colloquial and aesthetic.

[Midnight Madness]

Yeah, forgive me on the whole "animalistic" part. I was typing quickly while preparing to get a vaccination, but yes, I agree with pretty much everything Kozy is going for there. But I do believe we are getting a little off topic here, even if this is logic easily applied to the question proposed earlier.

In terms of questions to you, BaC, how long have you considered yourself a Brony? My friend got into it, going over from being a furry, about a year and a half ago after a bunch of stern resistance initially. And do you belong to any other particular fandoms?

[Bronies are cool]

I have been a brony for about 2 years now. It took me a while to accept that I was a brony though as I was watching the show and I didn't really even like it. (But somehow I managed to watch a 10 hour season in 5 days while still managing school.)
I would also identify with liking things that there are fandoms of but I don't associate with their fandoms at all. For example, I like kingdom hearts quite a bit. I also enjoy mine craft. And I like old school pokemon video games (like emerald and fire red) but I don't watch pokemon.
Lastly, the next thing is a music fandom type thing if that exists. I produce music so yea.
But I never talk to fans of kingdom hearts, mine craft, pokemon or music except for like one or two people I know in real life.

(I also like call of duty but that's just because I'm competitive. I don't however great people badly online and I usually mute everyone because almost everyone on there is disrespectful.)


I did enjoy reading that entire conversation that happened.
I feel like a lot of this stuff is debatable and almost philosophical. Like, "are they furries or not?", "let them decide how they define themselves" etc and so I greatly approximate your inputs.

I actually didn't know that furries and bronies clashes. Like, I know that bronies have a motto of acceptance and tolerance and if they treated y'all badly then it makes me a shamed of being a part of that group. Like, bronies should know better than to judge a fandom based on the few who speak the loudest (and give everyone else a bad reputation) because bronies also have those people who openly do "clop" and over obsession. Like, we should treat you just like how we want to be treated, especially since we are a growing fandom.

But yea. I've been a brony for 2 years. And it was quite a story as to how I became one. It's a weird story. Not sure if you would wanna hear it. But if you want to, let me know.

[Midnight Madness]

Hearing what got you to change over from disliking to liking would be interesting to hear, and I think it might give some people insight into something they may not be as familiar with.

[Snow Kittie]

And I like old school pokemon video games (like emerald and fire red) but I don't watch pokemon.

FIre Red was the Sh**. I played that game every day for 2 hours straight. Then I became Raichu and spent all my time breaking through walls... Lost interest.

[Bronies are cool]

Hearing what got you to change over from disliking to liking would be interesting to hear, and I think it might give some people insight into something they may not be as familiar with.

Ok so I guess I'll just explain how I became a brony from the very beginning so you'll be able to understand me and why my opinion changed.

I first discovered mlp about 3 years ago. By I didn't know it was "my little pony" I thought it was just something someone had made up. Like, I knew that my little pony existed, but I didn't know about the new version of it. So, on youtube's main page was an mlp related video called "epic cupcake time" and I thought that it would be funny since it was ok the main page for all youtube's to see. I watched it and I was confused a little because I didn't understand it all. I didn't particularly like it nor dislike it. I never really thought about it again. This was fall of 2011.

Spring of 2012 comes around and this is when I discover "ytp" on YouTube. I watched all sorts of ytp because it was funny. I particularly thought that the ones about Mr.Volcano were really funny. I don't know why. But there were links to mlp YouTube poops and after watching a few is when it hit me that this was my little pony.
It was weird to me so I kind of avoided watching mlp ytp. I didn't like it or I felt too insecure in my masculinity to watch it. Mind you I still has no idea of the concept of "brony" yet. I just knew that there was a show and obviously somebody watched it t make ytp videos.

Summer 2012
I went to a summer camp. They take videos of activities at camp and make a "highlights" video for each day. Someone on the tech crew added ponies in the highlights for some reason. But that's when I then later met a brony who recited the names of several ponies. I thought he was weird. I didn't know of bronies yet still. I just knew that THIS DUDE watches mlp. "What a weirdo right?"

Late summer/early fall 2012
I was watching some Rhett and link videos. I had very recently discovered this YouTube channel due to a video about bacon rubbing. In one of their GMM videos, they talked about bronies. In the video, one of them mentioned something about a one hour documentary about bronies. So out of curiosity, I watched the documentary which basically gave me a description of mlp, older generations of mlp and why they all suck, and about bronies. By the end of the video, I was skeptical because I had interest in watching it and at the same time I didn't want to. I didn't feel like I had a secure enough base in my masculinity to even watch it. But I ended up at least trying the first episode. And I was making fun of it the entire time. It didn't really meet the expectations that I thought it would have based on how the guy in the documentary described it.
But I watched the second episode because it was a 2 episode arc and if you watch the first one, you have to watch the second one. It featured a song. And I hated it. A lot. I absolutely hate singing when watching a television show. Singing and random laughing for no reason. I hate those. And you know what the song was about? Laughing. I absolutely hated that. Enough that I was rooting for the bad guy to win at the end and take over the world.
But finishing the episode, I just thought about how stupid the show was.
But the next day..... I watched about 3 more episodes.
And then over about 2 weeks, I finished the 26 episode first season. I really disliked a decent amount of it, but I kept watching it. I wasn't masculine enough to admit I was watching this. I kept it a secret.

During the time I was watching this, I was also looking a little for some brony musicians. Because I'm the documentary, a song was played and I actually really liked it. It was dubstep made by a really good musician (who still makes music today but not about ponies. His name is Alex S and he is really good.) so I really liked a decent amount of brony music. That's kind of what kept me watching the show. I liked the inspired music.
So I watched the second season in about a week. During school. This season had stepped the game up a bit. It was different. Had a different vibe. It had shifted from "directed at kids" to "general audience" even though technically it is still a kids show on a kids channel. I had actually liked the second season and found myself wanting to listen to all the brony music.

Late 2012 - mid 2013
This is when the third season began to air. I followed it closely and loved it. I came to terms with calling myself a brony but I still wanted to hide it. I literally only told one or two people I trust.
I kept listening to brony music a whole lot. I listened to music all day every day. And even when falling asleep.

Late 2013
Season 4 began and I followed it. I had also began producing music. I made one mlp related song.

2014
I got mlp merchandise. 3 shirts, a blanket, a poster, dog tags, a lunch box, wrist band, socks, and mlp collectible cards. By this point, I'm obviously in love with this show.

I had actually experienced something in the brony fandom called a "pony high"
This is when you want literally everything ponies and you are basically obsessed with mlp. Typically lasts about 6-10 months. It lasted for about a year and a half for me. And now I'm still in a pony high but it's a lot more mild. I still like poni died this and that but not everything has to be.
I used to have 80-90% brony music with a library of over 1000 songs. Now I listen to about 10-20% brony songs.
I used to think about mlp at least all day everyday. Literally. I thought about ponies in every period of class at school. And all the time at home as I surrounded myself with pony music
Now I think about it daily but not literally every second. Just many many moments a day.
I'm also not as secret about it anymore. I've become more secure in myself about being a brony.

I also don't make pony music. I make regular music. But that's a different topic. I never actually really had a desire to make a lot of pony related music.

[Trixsie Vixen]

Lots of good stuff here, so I might take a slightly different tack.


Furry is a very broad thing and so yes maybe there should be a better name for the broad kind vs the narrow kind.


Kimba the White Lion for example, I used to watch this when I was a wee little cub.  It was the first anime I ever saw (followed by Battle of the Planets) and loved it as I'm sure many other kids did.  But as well as enjoying it like other cartoons, it also made me feel "weird" inside sometimes.  Good but in a strange and special way.  That to me is a mark of my furriness, something that set me aside but I've only come to understand as an adult.  So I'm a narrow-type furry I guess.


So I tend to think of Bronies as Broad-type furries but not necessarily narrow-type furries.


I think furries and bronies should be allies against the haters.


However I do have one little thing that bugs me.


I don't identify as a pegasister, even though I've seen heaps of MLP and owned plenty of the toys.  I do consider myself a fan of the franchise though.  And this is where I draw the distinction:


The Brony fandom is basically Friendship is Magic oriented.  Now I really like G4, Lauren Faust did a great job in rebooting the franchise which was in trouble and I'm a big fan of her work with Powerpuff Girls too.


I like G3 and despite my misgivings about the move to short snouts really warmed to G3.5.  G2 not so much.  But primarily I love G1.  I loved G1 as a kid and that's what I showed to my cubs when they were little.


So to me (and I hate to sound like a hipster) I liked MLP before it was cool and I feel bit left out that the Brony fandom seems to have so little interest in the rest of the franchise.


George Arthur Bloom and Michael Reaves in particular wrote some really great episodes (not to mention they also wrote some great G1 Transformers episodes too) and well know voices actors like Frank Welker and Nancy Cartwright are also in the MLP G1 pedigree.


Anyway, I'm curious what you think.