LGBT

[tengu42]

I'm bi, but most people who are just meeting me IRL wouldn't know it. I don't present myself in a stereotypically (i.e. Hollywood television/movie) "gay" way, so when I introduce my fiance (we've been together 8 years now) I get surprised looks and the occasional "But you don't look gay..." style comment.
My bf/future husband also presents himself in a heteronormative way.
As for others I know IRL, my friend, whom I will call S, is genderfluid, but is male presenting. Scince his (yes, he's okay with this pronoun) biological gender is male, people who don't know him wouldn't pick up on it.

[CrazyCat]

I've found myself less and less interested in any gender lately, but that may just be the depression.

[George]

RANT WARNING

Dunno if you're allowed to have differing opinions on here, but I've actually been getting more and more sympathy for those against LGBT stuff. It's not that I'm against being able to love whoever, but being aggressive, cliquey, and/or overly outspoken about the matter isn't doing anybody any good. I've seen a lot of people whose Steam profiles that look like this:





I understand that you maybe want to meet others who are also gay/bi/whatever, but is it really fair to be exclusive and act like it makes you part of some sort of special club? People would get offended if you make "straight" or "cisgender" groups. I think one of the main reasons people are still opposed to homosexuality and being transgender is because of those with these adjectives make a scene of whatever they are. I don't care if someone is gay or whatever, but if they rub it in my face with borderline porn all the time and brag about their sex life, then I will gladly discriminate against you based on it, so yes, I am prejudiced against LGBT folks. I know this is a forum where that opinion will probably not be respected, but I feel the need to speak up in case others are made uncomfortable by this lack of acceptance. Rambling aside, I feel like most of the problem with LGBT issues in first-world countries comes from the behaviours of the outspoken members of the "community". Straight folks aren't exempt from this, if you rub your private matters in my face, I won't be happy with you either, but this thread is about LGBT so that's what I'll talk about. I've met quite a few people who make their LGBT status a big part of their identity as a person, and as a result don't give you a break from talking about sex or identity problems.

tl;dr I have a particular bias against the LGBT community because of the actions of its outspoken members. There are many who fit those categories but are not part of the "community" around it, and that's how I feel it should be in general. I'm fine with people who are lesbian, gay, bi, trans, etc., but I don't condone rubbing it in my face and/or using it as something to show off about.


Please keep what you do in private at least somewhat private.

[The Past]

I actually agree with you. At this point homosexuality and whatnot should be considered as normal as heterosexuality. It's not something special, good or bad, it's just a sexual orientation that shouldn't be seen as a massive part of your identity--at least not any more than heterosexuality is for heterosexuals. Sure, having groups for support and such is good, since society is still transitioning to accepting other sexualities, but some take it way too far, in my opinion.

[Grovygrunge]

I feel like you kinda really don't have a problem with the LGBT community then, you just don't like assholes who like to be in your face about their sexuality.


Frankly, from what I've seen, that's the vocal minority, you shouldn't let them colour your opinion. Pretty sure most of us in this "community" actually hate people who act and talk like gay stereotypes because they're "expressing who they are". Personally I hate that too, especially that "gay accent" as it's a fake thing people put on, I don't get how that's expressing who you are as an individual.


So yeah tangent aside, you shouldn't necessarily hate the whole LGBT thing because of those people, but you can if you still want to I guess.

[anoni]

stuff

So I generally understand where you're coming from, but at the same time I understand why these people are outspoken. Lets just sort-of break down the argument a bit and go through each level step-by-step.

  Exclusivity: The first point you made is the idea of exclusivity, you said "I understand that you maybe want to meet others who are also gay/bi/whatever, but is it really fair to be exclusive and act like it makes you part of some sort of special club?". Now, as you may know, some LGBT people have a very tough time with their sexuality. Their parents may disagree with them, their friends may disagree with them, they may be bullied, threatened or even assaulted. I know at least two people who've become homeless from coming out about their sexuality (and this is 2 people in real LIFE not online). So based on this, it's understandable that some of these people would feel a bit reserved about talking about their sexuality with heterosexual people, because in their life when they HAVE done that, it's become a huge problem. The reason these people probably feel more comfortable with LGBT people is they can relate with these hardships to other LGBT people. Even if you aren't homophobic I hope you can understand why these people may feel the place is "unsafe" in a way with non-LGBT people around. That's why some LGBT groups are exclusively LGBT. Obviously, heterosexuals do not have the same experience as this so don't really have the same reason to make a heterosexual-exclusive club.

  Gay-bragging: I believe what a lot of people consider "gay people being in their face" isn't really so, but rather there is a bias to look out for things that one is not used to and ignore things that one is. You say that gay people brag about their sex lives, but I think straight people do that too, in fact I would say straight people probably do it, on average, more than gay people. Straight people check out women all the time, talk about their experiences and even show pornographic material to their friends or not (DISCLAIMER: Obviously I don't mean all straight people, but a large subsection of them do!), it's not something that's exclusive to gay people however with gay people it's a lot more noticeable because it's not considered the norm and we notice abnormal things much more than normal things. I'll give you a personal example of this, I went to the opera house with my boyfriend and I kissed him for a picture shoot, we got a LOT of stares, I was ok with this but I was noticing that everyone was staring at us. I'm sure a few people were posting on social media and what-not "More gays just pushing their gayness in public" and what-not, meanwhile two other straight couples had done the same thing, with no where near as many stares. People just notice abnormal things more I think.

  It's funny cause, this sort of goes to a post I saw. Now not saying you're homophobic in any regard but I'm just posting the exact quote (which uses the word homophobic). "Homophobia is the fear that men will treat men the way men treat women".

  Now all this said, I'm not saying I entirely disagree with you. I'm not a person who is sensitive about my sexuality, a lot of the time people mistake me for being heterosexual or asexual cause I'm very lax about it. I'm not an activist, I don't get offended if people say fag or whatnot, I'm completely fine with being treated like anyone else. But this post wasn't for me, it was for other people that I know AREN'T fine with that and have, I feel, legitimate reasons to not be fine with this stuff.

[George]

Who's to say I meant everyone? I tried to make it clear that I was only referring to the types who do this kind of behaviour. The other thing...

 I'm sure a few people were posting on social media and what-not "More gays just pushing their gayness in public" and what-not, meanwhile two other straight couples had done the same thing, with no where near as many stares.

Straight couples and guys and whatever pushing their stuff in my face is just as annoying. I never said they're allowed to do the same kind of stuff. I just think it's not relevant enough to bring up in this thread, it's an LGBT thread, not a "rant about things that annoy you" thread!

[anoni]

Who's to say I meant everyone? I tried to make it clear that I was only referring to the types who do this kind of behaviour. The other thing...

 I'm sure a few people were posting on social media and what-not "More gays just pushing their gayness in public" and what-not, meanwhile two other straight couples had done the same thing, with no where near as many stares.

Straight couples and guys and whatever pushing their stuff in my face is just as annoying. I never said they're allowed to do the same kind of stuff. I just think it's not relevant enough to bring up in this thread, it's an LGBT thread, not a "rant about things that annoy you" thread!

Yeah but you specifically used it as an argument to talk about having a bias against LGBT people xD So perhaps you should change your argument to "I have a bias for over sensitive people", because really that's what most people have a bias against. They say they hate feminists, they hate transgender people, they hate LGBT people, but really the main reasons they give for this sort of hate isn't because the feminist, or their transgender or their LGBT, but because some of these people tend to be over-sensitive xD

[George]

Who's to say I meant everyone? I tried to make it clear that I was only referring to the types who do this kind of behaviour. The other thing...

 I'm sure a few people were posting on social media and what-not "More gays just pushing their gayness in public" and what-not, meanwhile two other straight couples had done the same thing, with no where near as many stares.

Straight couples and guys and whatever pushing their stuff in my face is just as annoying. I never said they're allowed to do the same kind of stuff. I just think it's not relevant enough to bring up in this thread, it's an LGBT thread, not a "rant about things that annoy you" thread!

Yeah but you specifically used it as an argument to talk about having a bias against LGBT people xD So perhaps you should change your argument to "I have a bias for over sensitive people", because really that's what most people have a bias against. They say they hate feminists, they hate transgender people, they hate LGBT people, but really the main reasons they give for this sort of hate isn't because the feminist, or their transgender or their LGBT, but because some of these people tend to be over-sensitive xD

Well, it's the cause of my bias. I'm always kind of disappointed when I meet someone and find out they're gay or whatever, as bad as that sounds. It's a bit like if there's some food that happens to make you sick most times you eat it, you'll be reluctant to eat it again.

[anoni]

stuff

Well, it's the cause of my bias. I'm always kind of disappointed when I meet someone and find out they're gay or whatever, as bad as that sounds. It's a bit like if there's some food that happens to make you sick most times you eat it, you'll be reluctant to eat it again.

Yeah, so you've established the reason for your bias is because of a loud minority and it's caused by oversensitivity that you relate to LGBT. So I hope you understand that the bias is more a problem with you, than a problem with the LGBT community as a whole. Cause you've admitted you're misrepresenting the large group of people based on the people who you feel are oversensitive.

[George]

stuff

Well, it's the cause of my bias. I'm always kind of disappointed when I meet someone and find out they're gay or whatever, as bad as that sounds. It's a bit like if there's some food that happens to make you sick most times you eat it, you'll be reluctant to eat it again.

Yeah, so you've established the reason for your bias is because of a loud minority and it's caused by oversensitivity that you relate to LGBT. So I hope you understand that the bias is more a problem with you, than a problem with the LGBT community as a whole. Cause you've admitted you're misrepresenting the large group of people based on the people who you feel are oversensitive.

Yeah, pretty much. 0nce again, it's a bias and not an outright hatred, so it's nothing that'll actually hurt anyone. I just get tired of people who introduce themselves with their sexuality, then have blatantly sexual stuff all over their pages and whatnot. LGBT or otherwise, it's no fun to have someone make a scene about what they like and/or do in private.

[Celestial_Dragon]

Perhaps but Billy there is a lot of evidence showing those who are not classified as Straight have higher rates of depression and suicide then there counterparts.

 I think, and 100% agree, individuals need to believe that there is someone just like them somewhere and that they respects and believe in them and that there actually a valuable member of the global community. A slight majority of LGBT individuals state that they have never outright met someone who is openly homosexual themselves, i for example have never met anyone who is gay in my entire life, though i am friends with a  female who isn't interested in man or woman she really doesn't care. Those individuals like myself need to see that they aren't alone, especially kids and teenagers who have to deal with religious and bigotry influence in their life, who wants to force these Young individuals to think that there the odd ones out. Being isolated can destroy almost anyone....

This topic always pisses me of, this and anything that would be stated as racist or anti-equality

 

[Halei-Helai]

Perhaps a bit late to this, but I would like to add to the discussion that Billy began.

I travel heavily in gay and trans subcultures. Sometimes it makes my head spin too. Gay bars and gay pride events blast loud pop music, have a lot of pent-up sexuality on full display, and feature outfits and costumes that make you scratch your head while it makes your head spin. Yeah, I find it crazy and more than a little extreme, but I totally get why these things are the way they are.

I will use the USA as an example here. For all the progress that LGBT people have made legally, we still have a long way to go socially with regards to acceptance. We live in a straight world. Straight love is held up as a normal, and perhaps even ideal thing. Straight couples can routinely get away with public displays of affection ranging from holding hands to kissing. Gay couples can get shouted down or physically assaulted (like what recently happened to a lesbian couple for kissing at Six Flags New England). Depictions of straight love are EVERYWHERE in books, music, television shows, movies, and works of visual art. Depictions of gay love, even in a non-explicit way, often provoke scandal at best, and provoke venomous scorn and condemnation at worst. Sure, Fifty Shades of Grey sold millions, but if somebody wrote Fifty Shades of Gay that book probably wouldn't even have found a serious publisher. Accusations of a person being gay, particularly directed towards men, are viewed as an insult and a challenge to their masculinity, and this is still a very common "joke" in modern media because being gay is still far less desirable than being straight.

In a society where gay people are still being chased underground, is it really that big of a surprise that celebrations of our identity tend to become as loud spoken as they are? Gay pride isn't a thing because we think being gay is the most awesome thing ever and we can't wait to tell you about it. Gay pride is a thing because we are affirming our right to exist and our right to love and our right to be who we are openly.

So yes, we drench ourselves in rainbow colors and associate in every LGBT group we can find. We flaunt our flagrant sexuality in peoples' faces when we dare to hold hands in public, and gay pride festivals will probably leave you blind and deaf for a week. If society will let us out of the closet that we have all collectively been shoved in, then I guarantee you that our need to assert our existence with Katy Perry and rainbow speedos will become a lot less intense.

We'll probably still stick with Katy Perry no matter what though.

[Celestial_Dragon]

Perhaps a bit late to this, but I would like to add to the discussion that Billy began.

I travel heavily in gay and trans subcultures. Sometimes it makes my head spin too. Gay bars and gay pride events blast loud pop music, have a lot of pent-up sexuality on full display, and feature outfits and costumes that make you scratch your head while it makes your head spin. Yeah, I find it crazy and more than a little extreme, but I totally get why these things are the way they are.

I will use the USA as an example here. For all the progress that LGBT people have made legally, we still have a long way to go socially with regards to acceptance. We live in a straight world. Straight love is held up as a normal, and perhaps even ideal thing. Straight couples can routinely get away with public displays of affection ranging from holding hands to kissing. Gay couples can get shouted down or physically assaulted (like what recently happened to a lesbian couple for kissing at Six Flags New England). Depictions of straight love are EVERYWHERE in books, music, television shows, movies, and works of visual art. Depictions of gay love, even in a non-explicit way, often provoke scandal at best, and provoke venomous scorn and condemnation at worst. Sure, Fifty Shades of Grey sold millions, but if somebody wrote Fifty Shades of Gay that book probably wouldn't even have found a serious publisher. Accusations of a person being gay, particularly directed towards men, are viewed as an insult and a challenge to their masculinity, and this is still a very common "joke" in modern media because being gay is still far less desirable than being straight.

In a society where gay people are still being chased underground, is it really that big of a surprise that celebrations of our identity tend to become as loud spoken as they are? Gay pride isn't a thing because we think being gay is the most awesome thing ever and we can't wait to tell you about it. Gay pride is a thing because we are affirming our right to exist and our right to love and our right to be who we are openly.

So yes, we drench ourselves in rainbow colors and associate in every LGBT group we can find. We flaunt our flagrant sexuality in peoples' faces when we dare to hold hands in public, and gay pride festivals will probably leave you blind and deaf for a week. If society will let us out of the closet that we have all collectively been shoved in, then I guarantee you that our need to assert our existence with Katy Perry and rainbow speedos will become a lot less intense.

We'll probably still stick with Katy Perry no matter what though.

*Claps hands furiously*
"bloody brilliant"

*stops*
" i just hate it, this topic, it makes me so mad sometimes.

[George]

Ya'll act like it's some sort of secret cult to be gay. There's a huge difference between the folks who like the same gender and people who make it into something taboo. I've lived a few places in the US, and I've only talked to two people so far who actually have issues with homosexuality itself. I've seen nobody scream slurs at the gay couples I've seen, and I've met nobody who's afraid of people knowing about what gender they like. I'm starting to think this is made into a much bigger deal online and in the media than it really is, kind of like pretty much every other social justice issue.

Yes, it's a horrible experience to be gay in Uganda, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and other stricter countries, but T0NS of things are horrible there. It's just one thing among many. Here, in the more developed countries, it's barely even an issue.


Don't make it into one.