The state of these forums, and why it needs to change.

[Angder]

This post was not easy to write, people here have meant a lot to me, and I have many friends I do not want to lose. So let me be clear, I am NOT writing this because I want to. I am writing this because it needs to be said, consequences be damned.

This forum is dying. Its falling apart. I know for a fact that many of the staff care about this forum and want the best for it, and the user base is still active, but the two people at the top have abandoned it. I have spent much of my time here, and there are major issues.

People are labeled as mods, yet have not even been active for months, (look at Veesmith, She was last active, at time of writing, May 10, 2015, 03:56:12 AM ). Cho-gath is named as a local moderator on the serious RP board, yet is not even still a mod, or even active. Going the other way, Razot is STILL a local moderator despite being highly active and well regarded among the mod staff.

As well as this the rules are inconsistently written, and even more inconsistantly enforced because of it. For example some mods are fine with drug references in RPs as long as its legal and not endorsed, others are completely against all drugs, such as tobacco, even in situations where it is historically accurate for everyone to be using said drug. This fuzziness is caused by the rules not being well written, and being full of bits that are vague, and this is bad for everyone, particually the mods, how the hell do you enforce rules if you don't know what they are?!

These issues have been present since I first joined. All of these things could be fixed by Tweak in less than half an hour. Evna has rewritten the rules already. Promoting Razot is literally a few button clicks. Hell. If Tweak CAN'T do it, why not promote Wyte to do it for him? There is no good reason not to. I know Wyte is more than willing to help.

Just to be clear, I am not the only one who feels these issues exist, and with any luck, some of those others who feel this way will come out and voice support before this thread vanishes. I will also say I have officially voiced my complaints to Anoni. There was no change. As far as I can tell, neither of the two people who actually needed to see the message (Winged Zephyr or Tweak) saw it.

I can name 3 mods who want to keep the forum alive, who would happily work to operate the forum. and I will make a small bet the remaining mods do also. Yet tweak refuses to hand control over. Leaving the forum to languish while using the money donated to do god knows what.

I am well aware of the ramifications of making this thread, I am well aware I was told directly not to by Anoni. But I also know that if I don't say something publicly, nothing will get done. And if I am banned and STILL nothing changes... well the forum will be dead soon anyway.

I am voicing the opinions of MANY of the highly active users, if this post gets something done, and I get banned for it, I will count that as a victory.

For those reading this, most of you really can't do much, but if your one of those few who donate, I urge you to stop, cut the donations until tweak takes notice. It is the only thing we have that will influence tweak. The only other thing you can do is reply to this thread to voice support.

Thank you for your time.

[Setcho]

I completely agree, the forums needs to change for the better. Someone had to say it it sooner or later.

[Grovygrunge]

I'm gonna admit. There's some of this that I agree with. I feel some of it needs to be more critical but maybe I look at these things in much too harsh a way. I definitely agree with the admin thing though. They could, at the very least, have passed down the responsibility by now.

[HollowOfHaze]

I consider the forums to be a definite part of my teenage years now. I hope that it improves for the better, and I do think that we require reforms in order to ensure the longevity of this site. The current administration must consider its methods and the actions it has taken (or not taken). I understand that Tweak, Zephyr, and all others of a similar position have real life to worry about, but it cannot be hard to at least give promotions and demotions as they are required.

I hope with all my heart that this is taken into consideration by the Administrators and is not censored by the moderators. I have never received any single warning point beforehand, and I pride myself on that fact. However, I am willing to forego that if my support of this cause (in the most part) allows it to be seen.

[Alistair]

I've been here for a couple years now. It took me a bit to see the faults and lack of activity on the administrators behalves, but as time passed I noticed it more and more. As Angder stated rules are being carried out inconsistently. This is a thing that definitely needs to change since personal opinion shouldn't be affecting the moderator's duties to uphold those rules.

[Cheza]

*Support and stuff*


Haven't really got anything to add. I agree with pretty much everything Angder and just want to show my support.
Hope that's ok >->'

[Farewell]

I agree as well, not much to say but I agree. The forum does need to change. I give all my support.

[Dr.Vice Jameson]

+10 post of support 

[Angder]

I am about to head to sleep, and suspect when I get back, the thread will be gone. I would like to thank everyone for their support while I still can. I was terrified of making this thread, but whatever happens now, I can see it was worth it.

Also I would like to thank anyone who posts after this post, as I might not get a chance to later. The more support the better.

[anoni]

Ok let me explain a few things very simply. In 2014, the forum wasn't going to exist. The forum was going to close down, permanently, due to Zephyr leaving and tweak being unable to pay for the funds. It took a lot of effort, by me and by a lot of other people, to get the forum running again, we pitched in donations but not only that, we got the forum to run on a cheaper server using VPS rather dedicated servers. Tweak still pays for the forum, donations very rarely are enough to pay for it so any that remains, which is usually a lot, is paid by tweak directly, through his personal finances. He also has a family, a son and a wife, and has a full time job struggling to pay for all these resources. He pays for the forum out of his own good heart, there's no reason he needs to pay for the forum and he is not entitled to pay for the forum or even manage it. He's doing it for free, and all people seem to do is complain that he's not doing enough, nobody seems to even thank tweak, at all, for all that he's done for this forum, that he's set it up, implemented a whole bunch of features for the site, and pays for the site every month, of every year, with no thanks and instead just having people asking "why aren't you doing more?". IF you stop donations, that'd be a hugely dick move, not on me, not on zeph, not on the admins, but on tweak.

  All complaints you have made to me have been directed to both Tweak and Zephyr, they're in a thread right now that had been linked to every moderator and we had a discussion on it. A few things did come up with the discussion that we're attempting to push forward. One thing that definitely has changed is we are now making an effort to PM people about why their reports didn't go through if they didn't go through (though sometimes we forget). This is so that people understand what constitutes as a rule and what does not. It also should be noted that most inconsistencies that you see, like a mod being ok with drugs but then suddenly you being warned for it, they generally were the result of a discussion between the mods. There is a lot of discussion that occurs behind the scenes that not many people are aware, perhaps we should make more of an effort to detail the discussion and explain, very clearly and precisely, why the consensus of moderators thought this was the right thing. We also discussed Evna's rule change and we've also discussed the idea of adding examples to the rules, so that it's more clear what is and isn't available. I do agree that there is some inconsistency with some moderator ethics, especially with the degree sex, and offensive uses are said. The point is we haven't ignored any of the requests, it's something we're working towards.

  Now Zeph is an interesting one, she's been active in other places and is starting to come around, she's having more time and I'm hoping I can convince her to come back or at least hand the responsibilities to someone else. The problem is, and this is really important, there isn't really too much we, the moderators, or really the community, can do about zeph being here or not. Making posts like this is not going to make Zeph come back or promote moderators, if anything it'd make her want to stay away more. It was a struggle to keep this forum alive and I'm glad that we did, people like HollowHaze wouldn't of been able to join if we had let the forum die back in 2014, but we didn't and this is the result of what we did.

  One thing that should be mentioned is I feel this issue is a tad overblown. From what I can see people are still having fun on the forum, there are things that need to improved, for sure, but this idea that the forum is dying doesn't really align with the statistics.  We've had more posts this year than the last three years, and we've had more members than the last 2. People are having fun and sure some admin things are wrong here and there, some people are getting warned inconsistently, and some things aren't getting changes as fast as they should. But that's not something that would destroy a forum, it's inconveniences and things that could be improved but nothing that is "the end of TFF as we know it".

  The reason I didn't want you to make this post (and I am disappointed that you did anyway), is because this is the stuff that actually kills forums. When new members come and they're gonna see this post and go, "this forum is not worth posting on, cause there's so many troubles". I've also heard talks of people starting trying to start their own forum, when I owned a clan many people in the clan split off to start their own competing clan. In every single case all the competing clans died out within a month and it damaged the original clan as a whole, almost all the founders regretted their decision. Drama is not attractive to a place that many people see as a safe space.

  I have to leave like right now cause I'm late for uni, I'll be back in a few hours to respond to any questions that any of you might have but I just want to say. We know your complaints, and we're trying to fix them. Don't stop donations cause that'll worsen the situation, and don't complain like this all the time cause that'll worsen the situation even more. Trust us when we say we have heard of your complaints and many moderators agree with them and we are trying to fix them

[Vosur Aekira]

To affirm what Anoni has stated, ALL of the moderators/admins listed have lives outside of the forums, and as thus at times they are rarely seen. Now, for each situation:

1. Vee recently was married (which is by means NO small step in life), so her situation is easily expected and not needed to be announced in the main board of the forums until this point to explain for her.

2. Tweak has a family of his own to take care of, but he took the burden of keeping the forums going on his own shoulders, both financially and technically. If he did not, these forums would've been gone in 2010 easily (if memory serves me right as the previous change of hands). So, as one of the few remaining staff that has been here since the near-beginning of these forums, I agree to how he has been running things through his own pace at his own expense. If anyone deserves to run the forums, it's him because of what he does, despite lack-of-gratitude or thanks.

3. WingedZephyr has had situations as of late preventing her from taking care of the forums, but she is very competent and has been through the forums best and worst of times (not too much longer than I have), so from what she has seen and done, she has my respect. Most situations of those that might cause issues with a staff-member to not be present are often discussed in private to allow continuity of maintenance of the forums with as little alarm as possible along with allowing that staff-member the privacy they wish to retain.

4. For the conflict of rulings on situations: after a situation comes up that requires immediate attention, there will be rushed moments that requires discussion afterwards, and thus there may be conflicts of interest before an agreement is made. Mostly every rule made is US-law based (ie: minors using cigarettes being a warning offense), and some even go above-and-beyond, but it is good reason since we've tried to hold a General Audience (G to PG-13) rating in the main boards. This is why we've stated "If you feel that a moderator has judged wrongly on a situation, CONTACT another moderator or admin, but remain civil about it."

5. As for the Forum "dying"... Anoni is still spot-on here. The statistics of the forum does NOT coincide to the forum dying, and we've been having quite an influx of new users. Most of them are lurkers for a while before making their posts, but that is usual for just about everyone. Every year, there's a change in how many people actively use the forums, quite possibly due to school being active during this time. We'll see a little bit of a spike of activity during the holidays, then drift back down when school resumes again. This is still normal in pattern.


To sum it all up: when you have been here more than a couple of years, you see how things go and what happens. Angder, I would have to say you have not yet seen enough to say what needs changing or not as you haven't been around long enough to see what is going on.

[Grovygrunge]

 Tweak still pays for the forum, donations very rarely are enough to pay for it so any that remains, which is usually a lot, is paid by tweak directly, through his personal finances. He also has a family, a son and a wife, and has a full time job struggling to pay for all these resources. He pays for the forum out of his own good heart, there's no reason he needs to pay for the forum and he is not entitled to pay for the forum or even manage it.

I had actually been wondering if this is the case. That is pretty neat of him to do actually. (Geez that sounds unappreciative. but ya know what I mean, it's awesome.)

[Vosur Aekira]

Indeed it is, but take a look at the home page to see how far we are from meeting the monthly goal and how long is left until the next one starts. That's about the reason why threads like this one are rather hazardous to the upkeep of the forums.

[kalan]

Angder has been here about as long as I have and ive been here long enough to know that this place has changed, what use to be fun as enjoyable has turned to petty bickering and whinning all to often. I bring this up because of the biggest annoyance I see from time to time, aside from the fighting, when someone steps up and says enough is enough drop the shit they are given a warning for back seat modding. I understand the mods cant be here all the time, however why when someone tries to be the adult in the situation are they warned. The forums go down alot and I understand that happens, im not bringing this up to complain im bringing this up to say I dont wanna hear whinning when it happens. And yes I agree with everything angder said I give my full support.

Anoni im not saying this to pick a fight with you or to call you out but I know concered are voiced and nothing is done. You may be working on it you may not, we dont know that. Might I suggest when a concern is voiced time and time again a thread is made to say hey were working on it be patient with us. It would negate the need for things like this. Otherwise we dont know if are concerns are being handle or not.

Tweak does pay for these forums out of the kindness of his own heart yes however we need a leader. The absence of a leader creates issues. Thats all im gonna say on that issue.

Vosur I did not mean to seem like I was calling you out with the way I opened this up I apologies if it seemed like I was trying to single you out, with that being said I will explain my reasons for opening it up like that. You closed your thread with what seemed to me like you calling angder out and saying he didnt have a voice cause he hasn't been here long enough. If thats not the Mc ase and I misread it I apologies. 

Now im sure there is more than one spelling error in this, im sure there is more than one grammatical error in this. I havent slept in over 36 hours. I could get some sleep and post when im well rested but I agree with angder and I want my voice to be heard. On that note im not condemning our moderation team. The vast majority of them are good at what they do. I do however agree that evna and mr razot are our two best. The rest of you can take that however you will.

Now I may be on for a little while longer yet tonight I may not, if anybody has an issues with anything I have said feel free to pm me with your concerns. Be advised though that I will discuss them with you as long as you are able to talk like an adult. If you resort to petty insults or name calling I will terminate the conversation.

In closing let me say that I support angder in what he said, the mods admins needs to fufill the responsibility of their stations.  I can however understand life taking up alot of your free time, right now between school and work I dont have free time that is one of the reasons ive been fairly absent lately. That and the fighting has driven me away to some extent. With that im gonna end this post.

[Vosur Aekira]

I say for Andger to gain more first-hand experience to know the patterns the forums will go through before making a "This person needs to step down" type of post. Not only is that hazardous to the one who actually seems to give any inkling of a darn to the forums (who could easily just up-and-quit if he so desired), but it's also an insult to them and anyone who volunteers their time, their money, and their sanity in some cases, to a forum that does not seem grateful for such a chance to exist.

Most of what happens in the forums in terms of maintenance and "leadership" is actually done behind the scenes. For those that are most visible, they prefer roles that are more direct. If you notice my role, it's not direct. I deal with situations that requires me to talk directly less than others because I do more research sides of things. I do take part in moderation from time to time, but I am closer to the administration side. Moderators tend to deal with people individually, administrators deal with the forum as a whole.