Vosur:
Most of what happens in the forums in terms of maintenance and "leadership" is actually done behind the scenes. For those that are most visible, they prefer roles that are more direct. If you notice my role, it's not direct. I deal with situations that requires me to talk directly less than others because I do more research sides of things. I do take part in moderation from time to time, but I am closer to the administration side. Moderators tend to deal with people individually, administrators deal with the forum as a whole.
Most of my complaints come from both personal experience, AND certain behind the scenes information. As I said, even if there is isn't an issue, I know many people think there is, and that INCLUDES some of the mod team. That's a pretty big giveaway that there is a problem to me. even if that issue is "Too many people think there is an issue"
To affirm what Anoni has stated, ALL of the moderators/admins listed have lives outside of the forums, and as thus at times they are rarely seen. Now, for each situation:
1. Vee recently was married (which is by means NO small step in life), so her situation is easily expected and not needed to be announced in the main board of the forums until this point to explain for her.
that was, as I understand it, several months ago. But hey, I have never been married so I don't know how long these things take. Point taken.
2. Tweak has a family of his own to take care of, but he took the burden of keeping the forums going on his own shoulders, both financially and technically. If he did not, these forums would've been gone in 2010 easily (if memory serves me right as the previous change of hands). So, as one of the few remaining staff that has been here since the near-beginning of these forums, I agree to how he has been running things through his own pace at his own expense. If anyone deserves to run the forums, it's him because of what he does, despite lack-of-gratitude or thanks.
Despite being displeased with how tweak has been running things, I can't argue with these points directly.
3. WingedZephyr has had situations as of late preventing her from taking care of the forums, but she is very competent and has been through the forums best and worst of times (not too much longer than I have), so from what she has seen and done, she has my respect. Most situations of those that might cause issues with a staff-member to not be present are often discussed in private to allow continuity of maintenance of the forums with as little alarm as possible along with allowing that staff-member the privacy they wish to retain.
I am aware of winged Zephyr's issues, not in detail, but I am aware of them. That's why I mostly pointed my finger at Tweak. I know WZ has had problems from life, and I sincerely wish them all the best in dealing with those issues.
4. For the conflict of rulings on situations: after a situation comes up that requires immediate attention, there will be rushed moments that requires discussion afterwards, and thus there may be conflicts of interest before an agreement is made. Mostly every rule made is US-law based (ie: minors using cigarettes being a warning offense), and some even go above-and-beyond, but it is good reason since we've tried to hold a General Audience (G to PG-13) rating in the main boards. This is why we've stated "If you feel that a moderator has judged wrongly on a situation, CONTACT another moderator or admin, but remain civil about it."
Isn't this a sign the actual rules need an overhaul? You can't pause to discuss every time a rule is broken, you need to be able to act quickly.
5. As for the Forum "dying"... Anoni is still spot-on here. The statistics of the forum does NOT coincide to the forum dying, and we've been having quite an influx of new users. Most of them are lurkers for a while before making their posts, but that is usual for just about everyone. Every year, there's a change in how many people actively use the forums, quite possibly due to school being active during this time. We'll see a little bit of a spike of activity during the holidays, then drift back down when school resumes again. This is still normal in pattern.
The forums are not dying from inactivity, they are dying from the top down. The users will be the last thing to go most likely.
Angder, I would have to say you have not yet seen enough to say what needs changing or not as you haven't been around long enough to see what is going on.
Alistair also supports my post, as does Cheza. (join dates December 13, 2013 and January 11, 2014 respectively)
Anoni:
Ok let me explain a few things very simply. In 2014, the forum wasn't going to exist. The forum was going to close down, permanently, due to Zephyr leaving and tweak being unable to pay for the funds. It took a lot of effort, by me and by a lot of other people, to get the forum running again, we pitched in donations but not only that, we got the forum to run on a cheaper server using VPS rather dedicated servers. Tweak still pays for the forum, donations very rarely are enough to pay for it so any that remains, which is usually a lot, is paid by tweak directly, through his personal finances. He also has a family, a son and a wife, and has a full time job struggling to pay for all these resources. He pays for the forum out of his own good heart, there's no reason he needs to pay for the forum and he is not entitled to pay for the forum or even manage it. He's doing it for free, and all people seem to do is complain that he's not doing enough, nobody seems to even thank tweak, at all, for all that he's done for this forum, that he's set it up, implemented a whole bunch of features for the site, and pays for the site every month, of every year, with no thanks and instead just having people asking "why aren't you doing more?". IF you stop donations, that'd be a hugely dick move, not on me, not on zeph, not on the admins, but on tweak.
I admit I have my doubts about what you say about the donations, but there is no proof either way so...
I am grateful for Tweak keeping the forum alive, especially if what your say is true. But the issue is that this is all in the past now. in the present I see nothing from him, he is not doing basic things unless pushed. When things are pointed his way, his response is he will get to it "Sometime".
All complaints you have made to me have been directed to both Tweak and Zephyr, they're in a thread right now that had been linked to every moderator and we had a discussion on it.
From what I have heard this is an outright lie, or at least a very recent development, I know there was a thread, but I also heard Tweak and WZ gave no response to it. Even if we assume its 100% true, it has been a long time, and from my point of view, nothing changed. Razot is still a local mod, the rules are still unclear, things are still being done based on personal preference from the mods.
A few things did come up with the discussion that we're attempting to push forward. One thing that definitely has changed is we are now making an effort to PM people about why their reports didn't go through if they didn't go through (though sometimes we forget). This is so that people understand what constitutes as a rule and what does not. It also should be noted that most inconsistencies that you see, like a mod being ok with drugs but then suddenly you being warned for it, they generally were the result of a discussion between the mods.
Again, the fact that was necessary shows changes to the rules are needed
There is a lot of discussion that occurs behind the scenes that not many people are aware, perhaps we should make more of an effort to detail the discussion and explain, very clearly and precisely, why the consensus of moderators thought this was the right thing. We also discussed Evna's rule change and we've also discussed the idea of adding examples to the rules, so that it's more clear what is and isn't available. I do agree that there is some inconsistency with some moderator ethics, especially with the degree sex, and offensive uses are said. The point is we haven't ignored any of the requests, it's something we're working towards.
Evna's rules changes were submitted beginning of this year. What progress has been made I ask? to justify such a long time.
Now Zeph is an interesting one, she's been active in other places and is starting to come around, she's having more time and I'm hoping I can convince her to come back or at least hand the responsibilities to someone else. The problem is, and this is really important, there isn't really too much we, the moderators, or really the community, can do about zeph being here or not. Making posts like this is not going to make Zeph come back or promote moderators, if anything it'd make her want to stay away more. It was a struggle to keep this forum alive and I'm glad that we did, people like HollowHaze wouldn't of been able to join if we had let the forum die back in 2014, but we didn't and this is the result of what we did.
So your saying there is a problem? But we can't do anything about it, so should just stay quiet? The forum has been this way for months, until I start seeing change, I WILL publicly voice my opinion. you can't just brush it under a rug.
One thing that should be mentioned is I feel this issue is a tad overblown. From what I can see people are still having fun on the forum, there are things that need to improved, for sure, but this idea that the forum is dying doesn't really align with the statistics.
Its dying from the top down. Its not the users that are leaving. Its the admins.
We've had more posts this year than the last three years, and we've had more members than the last 2. People are having fun and sure some admin things are wrong here and there, some people are getting warned inconsistently, and some things aren't getting changes as fast as they should. But that's not something that would destroy a forum, it's inconveniences and things that could be improved but nothing that is "the end of TFF as we know it".
Why are things not as fast as they could be? what's slowing things down?
The reason I didn't want you to make this post (and I am disappointed that you did anyway), is because this is the stuff that actually kills forums. When new members come and they're gonna see this post and go, "this forum is not worth posting on, cause there's so many troubles". I've also heard talks of people starting trying to start their own forum, when I owned a clan many people in the clan split off to start their own competing clan. In every single case all the competing clans died out within a month and it damaged the original clan as a whole, almost all the founders regretted their decision. Drama is not attractive to a place that many people see as a safe space.
I tried doing it quietly, and to be blunt, nothing came of it. Honestly I did not want to do this, but it was the only way I could get a response. I tried to keep my post factual and to avoid unnecessary drama as much as possible. But I felt it needed to be said, and evidently I am not the only one. 8 people have stepped forward themselves in this one thread. And I reckon there are more who have not seen, or didn't to avoid getting warned.
I have to leave like right now cause I'm late for uni, I'll be back in a few hours to respond to any questions that any of you might have but I just want to say. We know your complaints, and we're trying to fix them. Don't stop donations cause that'll worsen the situation, and don't complain like this all the time cause that'll worsen the situation even more. Trust us when we say we have heard of your complaints and many moderators agree with them and we are trying to fix them
Again, your asking us to not complain because its inconvenient. I know you have heard our complaints, but I see no EVIDENCE of them being fixed. Again, I will reference the fact that these issues have been around for MONTHS. Almost an entire year. If things are taking this long, you have a problem.
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On a semi related track, i would like to thank you for your response, i was fully expecting to find this thread deleted, and myself with a huge warning. The fact this did not happen shows I am right that the mod team is at its core, fair and decent. I can not say how glad I am about that. I will reiterate the fact that I support the moderators here fully, and believe they are doing their very best
I also Apologize for not addressing Anoni's response to Sunder, but this post is already a mammoth, so for now I am leaving it here