Wearing tails, LGBT parades, cross-dressing etc.

[Traum]

I was thinking about these rather abnormal activities one day and about all the hate they get, but instead of trying to defend I came up with a decent reason why it's justifiable to be against them imo. Firstly I'd like to say an educated person is very likely to be ok with weirdos (no offense) as long as they do their thing behind closed doors. The whole problem arises then they are brought up into public and peaceful people are forced to look and they feel that their morals are being disrespected. To better illustrate what I mean I'm going to give this analogy:

Imagine a small dining room. Someone brings an orange, peels it and starts eating. It smells fine to you as to most of others, no one complains. Now consider what would had happened if a same person brought a durian fruit (it has a very strong, disgusting odor). Would you still be enjoying your meal despite the fact that smell makes you gag? You'd definitely hate him, but not because you think it's stupid to like the fruit, but because it should not be eaten in a place where majority would be disgusted by that.

The exact same rule can be applied to many other controversial things. People should think about others right to not like something, before passing judgment.

[138]

Haha

Be careful, Traum

You might be burned at the stake.

[Grovygrunge]

Well first of all bro, thanks for trying to stir some shit. This is some real nice bait. But I'm an idiot soooo... Now to respond in a way which allows you the benefit of the doubt and acts like you totally meant this sincerely and not to troll, you're kinda just calling out the process of change in society.


Most of these things you've mentioned are so harmless that I wouldn't really look twice if I were to see them in public. Gay pride, I dislike gay pride, simply because it achieves the very opposite of the thing it's trying to achieve, it's not helping improve the public view, it reinforces negative stereotypes about gay men and women.


As for crossdressing or wearing and wearing tails and other such "controversial" shit, crossdressing is only controversial because it goes against gender stereotypes which are bad anyway. **censor** like, "Oh no, people are taking down barriers to how people are supposed to acts based upon a thing they have no control over. Oh no how can society possibly function without this outdated thing that has no purpose in modern society." Times change, accept it or be a stick in the mud I don't really care. Just seems like hysterics to me, getting all worked up over nothing in particular.

[George]

A good way to put it is public indecency is bad.


Under normal circumstances, people don't run around the streets in thongs doing vulgar "dances". When people do it for a "cause", it stirs up hate for that cause. So this is not bait, this is Traum just stating something that others don't want to admit.

LGBT parades are not fair to the public. They cause problems for those they're "supporting" by getting those who were neutral to turn against them. I dunno how the parades are in other places, but the places I've seen...I'm surprised the stuff they do is even legal. Sex toys are not for public use if you ask me, and there's a thick line between dancing and public indecency.

Tails, crossdressing, etc. is just a way to dress, so I'm not going to complain nor glorify it.

[Nrein]

@OP

Your example is terrible.  I'm disgusted spam, does that mean that everyone should be aware of this and not eat spam near me?

Essentially the solution to your problem is that everyone should just be bland, normal, silent and just essentially robots while out in public.  You may have the right to dislike somethin, but that doesn't give you the right to say anyone who likes it shouldn't offend you with its presense.

I hope that with your mindset, you do absolutely nothing against the norm out in public. Your must wear the most typical, socially acceptable clothing, have a standardized hair cut, use odorless shampoo and body wash, eat only socially acceptable foods, etc.

[anoni]

This is a controversial topic, but I feel it's ok as long as everyone remains civil about it

@George

I feel like that sort of mindset could be said about a lot of things. The idea that "X is not socially acceptable behavior, without an event, therefore doing X within an event is bad for the cause"

Dressing up in a fursuit is not socially acceptable, people think it's weird, it's not fair to the public. We should stop furry conventions then. (Public walks and stuff)
Cosplaying is not socially acceptable, again most people would be confronted by it, so again we should not have anime conventions and such.
In some places in the US talking against god is not socially acceptable, it's confronting and attacks their beliefs, we shouldn't have atheist talks or meets then.

The thing about gay pride parades is they're not generally pushing for rights, that's what protests and stuff are there for. Gay pride parades are there for LGBT people to have fun, just like furry conventions, anime conventions and so forth. There was a thing in society where people were once oppressed, once told they were bad people for being them, so some people responded by saying "Nah, we're not bad people" and started telling other LGBT people that they weren't bad people and that's where the gay pride parade started. Now it's developed into a thing where it's like "Be proud of yourself, don't be ashamed, and have a lot of fun". So LGBT pride parades are more for having fun, and while it may not be socially acceptable to be provocative and let loose in this way, I don't think that means it should be stopped, otherwise we'd have to stop a lot of things I'm sure a lot of you also find very fun.

EDIT: Also I want to mention that gay pride parades are actually quite socially acceptable now. LGBT Mardi Gras has a lot of straight and non-LGBT people participating, volunteering, watching, partying, etc. I would say Mardi Gras has actually increased peoples "like" of LGBT people more so than decreased. Mardi Gras are events that are held all around the world, not all are LGBT based, but they all have a common theme overturning social conventions (read wikipedias definition on it) and people enjoy them.

[Silentium Potens]

I'll throw my two pennies into the mix.

For me, it's less about how socially unacceptable something is, and more about how... "degenerate" it is, for lack of a better term.

Hear me out.

Some socially unacceptable things are harmless to other people.  But other stuff has the potential for eliciting more consequences, sometimes initially unforeseeable.  We essentially have to establish some sort of boundaries for what can be allowed in public, since everyone must share the public space, and no one likes everything.  Otherwise, we come down to using one of the two extremes, where either anything is allowed (and I mean anything, consider some nasty stuff to be seen in public), to nothing but the blandest stuff is allowed (permanent suit and tie, anyone?).  In the end, we need some sort of public decency, a level of restriction of what can be allowed in public, to balance out the good that people want to see and the activities that some what to do.  Otherwise, we might as well be living in either a grey box or some sort of trash heap.

[138]

I really don't care about it to be honest. I mean it's whatever. If I see something I don't like, I get over it. It's really that simple.

[mosskid]

I agree with anoni.


I think that pride kinda serves as a safespace for LGBTQ folks to talk about their experiences and meet new friends. Even though gay marriage has been legalized where I am (the US) and gay rights are rapidly expanding overall, stigma still stands, and its still very challenging to go about life without facing discrimination, especially in the south. That's why pride is important. Think about LGBTQ youth that could be potentially suicidal, but realizing that, through pride, that they shouldn't hate themselves for something that is part of their identity. Although I understand where pride can make people uncomfortable, you also have to understand that people can seriously benefit from taking part in a positive community that tells them to love themselves.


It's okay if pride isn't something you personally want to see, and I'm in no way saying that your obligated to enjoy it. But you shouldn't make folks feel bad for finding the good out of it or saying that them taking part in it is bad for the community.


As far as tails and crossdressing, I just don't think there is really anything to gain from policing what people wear.

[George]

It's okay if pride isn't something you personally want to see, and I'm in no way saying that your obligated to enjoy it. But you shouldn't make folks feel bad for finding the good out of it or saying that them taking part in it is bad for the community.


As far as tails and crossdressing, I just don't think there is really anything to gain from policing what people wear.

It's not pride that I was complaining about, it's the behaviour that goes on at the pride events specifically.

[138]

I have to agree with George on that one.

[Silentium Potens]

I'll second George.

[Keinai]

[size=0px]Firstly I'd like to say an educated person is very likely to be ok with weirdos (no offense) as long as they do their thing behind closed doors. The whole problem arises then they are brought up into public and peaceful people are forced to look and they feel that their morals are being disrespected.[/size]

I've noticed that LESS educated people tend to want to shove people into a closet.


By 'peaceful' do you mean white, cis-gendered straight Christian men who are in no way oppressed by society? The world is finally starting to wake up and realize 'oh shit trans and gays are people too'. How is a white man's morals disrespected when human beings just like him are harmlessly celebrating their individuality?

[George]

By 'peaceful' do you mean white, cis-gendered straight Christian men who are in no way oppressed by society? The world is finally starting to wake up and realize 'oh shit trans and gays are people too'. How is a white man's morals disrespected when human beings just like him are harmlessly celebrating their individuality?

Because not everyone wants to see people in thongs doing vulgar dances and showing off their sex toys while they're just trying to commute?


0h, and can you do everyone a favour and leave your racism out of this?

EDIT: Since I've gotten some harassment for this post, I will specify that I posted this because race should not be an issue in this thread. This is a not a racial debate thread, and racial prejudices should be taken elsewhere.

[Keinai]

I apologize, I'll leave.